I think I know what you mean.  Something to help the players understand team compositions and roles.

Like, it's super annoying when I pick kuzmann to guard the monolith, and then have a loaht hanging around with me when he should be getting aleph.  I'm slow and have stress, and he is fast and has no stress to manage; it's obvious he should go get the aleph but a lot of people don't understand.  I never played paragon so I don't know exactly what you mean, but a more structured role system in spacelords might not be a bad thing.

I  like the pure PvP idea but only if I can swap characters mid match like overwatch.  If we need a sniper and baby harec is running into mobs brawling  like jean claude van damn, I want to be able to switch to another long range character.  It will make 'carrying' more reliable, which the game absolutely needs.

Overwatch just implemented a 2-2-2 role lock (tank, healer, dps).  It feels great already and it's only going to get better.  And overwatch has a training mode where you can co-op against A.I.  If you want an game that is very intelligent and exciting yet won't make your hair turn white as you pull it all out, I'd reccomend it.

I want the spacelords playerbase and community to grow.  MSE and the Discord cabal seem stalwart in not doing anything that could help that occur.  Do I love the game more then they do?

@Lehi compare who is steaming/watching spacelords to paladins and warframe.  Then compare that to fortnite or overwatch.  Spacelords barely has a pulse, despite being a better (when ping and matchmaking is not horrible)  than all of them. 

These are the reasons I feel the game should allow optional PvP:
1. Meta slave: You either play the characters you enjoy and if those characters you find fun aren't the ordained mete characters specifically tailored to that mission you will be at a disadvantage with an antag. So you really have fun if you happen to like one of the lower tier characters. You just have to play the same characters for certain missions because you never know when you'll get invaded.

2. MMR and match making. New players get shit on all the time by antags. And with Sudden Death there really isn't anything a higher level player can do if the antag chooses to just pick apart lower level players until they use up all your lives. I've been in so many games where I didn't die at all to antag but they won anyways. This feels horrible. This is really no fun at all. And frankly I don't want this game to be a baby sitting simulator.

3. Many people just don't like the PvP, at least not in its current state. If there is a few weapons that are overpowered, if the game balance is wrong, if there are certain characters that are just broken and MSE hasn't caught on yet then why should people have to suffer through these mistakes and oversights? If they had the option to PvP then they could choose to avoid it if it's currently not to their liking. Or they can, you know, stop playing? I'm sure that would be better for the game. At least if they can choose you still keep the players playing.

4. It's simply not rewarding for the Raiders. I could care less what rewards the antag gets, they CHOSE to invade others missions. You cannot fel sorry for them on principal. But Raiders really lose out when they get invaded. You DO NOT get more rewards for getting invaded. And you would have progressed much better without an invasion. If you win as a raider you are getting nothing more than you would have gotten anyways. Seems a waste of time for us.

5. It's not true PvP. Simply put, there is passive stats and forge levels. This means there will always bee a shadow of doubt as to why you lost or won. If your opponent was a tier 6 and you were a tier 1 then it;s obvious why you won and, at the very least, what contributed towards that win and that was passives and forge level. In if the inverse were true you would know that you were beaten because your opponent had more at their disposal to use against you. And saying they were more skilled is even worse. Sure give a skilled player even MORE inherent circumstantial advantage, that make it more fair? TRUE PvP has opponents who adhere to the same level of power.

6. Let players enjoy the game with their friends how they wish. Many people like PvP. And those people should play PvP together. Nothing wrong with that. Other people, however, despise it and would rather avoid it because they simply do not enjoy it. It has nothing to do with win lose. Some people may feel they don't want to take part in robbing others of their rewards. They don't want to feel they've wasted their time or to waste another persons time and progress. Not everyone enjoys it. Some people are peaceful minded people who just want to relax and have fun with friends and don't find griefing others fun.

7. Hasn't it been long enough? I mean, the game is going through a bit of turmoil right now with a lot of changes that not everyone likes. I doubt it could do all that much harm to have the option at this point. I mean, has the mandated model been working out so far?

Meta-slave is a huge gripe for me.  I can't even play Lycus, the game mascot and coolest dude in the game, because there's just so many better choices (for me at least) and I'll never know if I get invaded.  Iune is my favorite character but I would only play her like 5% of the time, and I would regret it like 75% of the time.  Either there's an antag or I'm playing with dumbazzes who won't shoot the boss, And I have to kill the guardians with the sigh gun, which needs a freakin buff by the way.

Despite a very vocal and dedicated discord cabal, one merely has to look at how meager the streaming and streaming attention is for the game to know all is not well.  Maybe the game already has such a bad reputation by now that a re-haul wouldn't even help

Welcome to spacelords where the community shits on each other and then wonder why it's so small! Damn it why are my antag queue so long! "I mean come on I only made like 200 newbies rage quit last week by insta killing them with my breath!?"

Unlike what MSE thinks, I think in the long term having dedicated PvE would actually decrease Antag queue wait times, because the community would begin to blossom. 

There are many people who simply don't have the reaction times, positional awareness, or aiming skills to compete in PvP in spacelords.  But, The storyline, art, atmosphere, graphics, music, etc is so good they would want to meme/emote around, spend money on skins, flaunt said skins etc.  As they meme around in PvE, they increase passives/guns and learn to play better and better, and eventually dip their toes into PvP, which should have exclusive rewards and much higher rewards than PvE. 

Noobs don't want to get deleted from gameplay for 10 seconds 19 times a game by a higher rank who has both more skills, better guns, and higher passives.  So they move to a different game. 

And veterans don't want to play with noobs and have their experiance ruined.  I don't like playing as antag.  The reason I play online games is to play as a team because it feels good to be a valuable team asset.  If I was going to play solo I'd just go play DMC or something.  Getting teamed with noobs that do nothing but give the antag a constant stream of immunity is not fun. Or watching the scene for the 4000th time.

By MSE saying "antag is core to spacelords, it stays no matter what" they are cutting out like 75% of gamer demographic right from the start.  The COD empire can afford to do that but I don't think MSE can.  Think about how many gamers in the world only play Diablo or MMO or RPG  that don't have advanced FPS/TPS skills at all.  Well does MSE want their money, or do they want to scare them away with Meta tryhard alicia with smoking daisy etc etc.   

Well, whatever they are doing I don't think is working.  There was a small bump with Sooma and MOP update but now barely anyone is streaming on PS4 again.   

I think they just keep changing things around (aleph deposits) to try and get people to re install the game and try it out again.  If they want to change something around, being able to switch characters and guns in between spawns would be good maybe.  You should be awarded for your flex skills and knowledge of counters and good team comps.  Plus, if people only have time for a couple matches, they can still potentially play all their favorite characters and have more fun. 

there cannot be 4v4 pvp.  the melee system does not support that.  It's good for 4v1.   A 1v1 could possibly work in a basic battle arena map.  Maybe even 2v2.

Well ideally i would give elites old aleph treatment. Punch, get aleph inside. Right now only thing they do is give hp and immune frames.

I know right.  That part was like popping bubble wrap.  It felt perfect.