[Netzavare]

I've been playing as Antagonist for the past couple of days and I really like the challenge. I love invading in the Dark Souls games and I get a similar feeling when I play this game which is great as not many games can give you that same rush.

Most of my games have been fine but I've noticed the same pattern almost every game. Whoever is playing Ginebra is almost untouchable. I typically play with Harec and he is just completely shut down by her. Her crossbow can one shot him (I think, or at least down him in one shot), and she can fire it much more quickly than he can fire his rifle. If Harec is stalking, he also has to be completely still while she can strafe and fire bolts. With her speed she can easily down Harec out of his stalking mode, then use her sabertooth skill to rush down the whisp that leads back to Harec, and finish him off with a quick melee attack.

Playing as Konstantin she is more manageable, but still ends up being the most annoying character to fight against on the Raider team. Her weapon is practically a semi automatic sniper rifle. It has decent range, accuracy, and does a good bit of damage. She beats his minigun at a distance and up close if she lands a headshot it will stagger you out of attacking which will leave you open to taking more bolts to the face. It's kind of silly that heavy Konstantin loses up close to someone meant to play further back.

 In melee if she dodges an attack, she can fire a bolt off and knock you back out of melee range and then shoot like 2 more times before you can close the distance again and you're downed.

On top of this she's so quick in her sabertooth form and not only can she traverse the map with great haste she can also use it to avoid a lot of damage and escape from tough situations.

During one of the invasions I had the enemy team almost finished. There were about 40 seconds left until they could respawn and the only person alive on their team was Ginebra who just outran me in sabertooth form for the entire duration. I could not catch her and the npcs were barely helping. If I shot she would just move from cover to cover, if I tried to melee I could not catch her. The time reset and they would end up winning which was really annoying because I actually played pretty well that game. They were on the 3rd round of respawning I believe (they had like 114 seconds on their timer). I just couldn't get that last kill.

At the end, the scorecard said 66 raiders killed. Of course I received no rewards and lost stigma, but that's a whoooooole other issue lol.

Thoughts? It may just be that I'm still new to the game and the people playing Ginebra are founders which means they are probably more invested and have more experience in this game than I do, leading to them just being plain better than me. Still, I figured I'd put my thoughts down on this.

[SygBoss]

She's a pretty amazing antag killer. She can focus entirely on hunting the antag while the rest of the team does the objective. Maybe her cougar form should be temporary like Hans jetpack.

Anyway I think Harec is a terrible antag personally. Too squishy and too many counters. I don't think Kon is that great either.

[Netzavare]

She's a pretty amazing antag killer. She can focus entirely on hunting the antag while the rest of the team does the objective. Maybe her cougar form should be temporary like Hans jetpack.

Anyway I think Harec is a terrible antag personally. Too squishy and too many counters. I don't think Kon is that great either.

Sabertooth being temporary might be a good idea. I'm still pretty new so I didn't feel comfortable suggesting any changes myself.

As far as Harec and Konstantin go I just really like both of the characters. I've actually won more than I have lost with Harec, but I think it's just because I've played against uncoordinated teams or new players like myself. I try to get up really high with the stalk ability and land those headshots, but yeah he is so squishy it's crazy.

[Rukio]

See the problem with this is, the animation to go into Cougar and out is pretty long, as well as it cannot counter a grapple or melee attack. She cannot run normally so she requires it. She's super annoying to kill as the antag but maybe something else needs to come into play? The Devs probably have a counter to her in the making.

Someone that shackles would be nice.

[Drimakus]

I think the real problem atm is that there is very small roster of characters to choose counterpicks from. Any character can be good against the ones and suck from the other. Every team should have tanks, supports, snipers etc to succeed. You can't just pick Harec and wipe everything, so if you sucked hard, its not really your character's fault - its either a bad pick of your team or bad teamplay.
But I really want to see boosted/reworked heroes, like again, Harec, could have a pistol at least for CQC situations, where you too close for Snipe attacks and to far for melee.

[Argentil]

On top of this she's so quick in her sabertooth form and not only can she traverse the map with great haste she can also use it to avoid a lot of damage and escape from tough situations.

During one of the invasions I had the enemy team almost finished. There were about 40 seconds left until they could respawn and the only person alive on their team was Ginebra who just outran me in sabertooth form for the entire duration. I could not catch her and the npcs were barely helping. If I shot she would just move from cover to cover, if I tried to melee I could not catch her. The time reset and they would end up winning which was really annoying because I actually played pretty well that game. They were on the 3rd round of respawning I believe (they had like 114 seconds on their timer). I just couldn't get that last kill.

Don't worry, you're not alone in this. I've had the same experience playing multiple characters, she has no existing counter.

I've had a lot of frustration playing with and against Ginebra. As a raider I have noticed Ginebras taking advantage of the high walls in A Breath of Hope (the maze-like level where you charge conduits) and just sitting there in cougar form, not participating, but also being unreachable for the antagonist. I also had a 40 minute game where I was playing as antagonist and the Ginebra's entire team disconnected after I triggered survive mode twice, but after it was just her left, she soloed the game all the way to the end by running from one end of the map to the other, killing engineers and triggering objectives where necessary. She's impossible to hit when she runs around like that, and she takes reduced damage, with no duration or cooldown on her movement ability. The 0.25-0.5 sec delay on shifting is negligible when she's on the other side of the map.

And to make matters worse, her crossbow is ridiculously potent, downing high HP characters in 1 hit.

This is just a poorly thought out character in general:
-Passive damage reduction
-Fastest character in the game with no limitations on her movement skill
-One of 2 characters that can climb up high walls
-Possibly the highest DPS weapon next to Shae's
-Only existing character with weapon knockback
-Stress is deactivated in cougar form, so she's undetectable in this form.

Unfortunately, fixing one aspect of her character, such as implementing a cooldown to her cougar form, wouldn't balance her - but they need to remove the wall climb, and max out her stress when she's in cougar form so that you can see where she is - you know, like Alicia, the only other mobile character that can climb up walls.

[Geisty]

But I really want to see boosted/reworked heroes, like again, Harec, could have a pistol at least for CQC situations, where you too close for Snipe attacks and to far for melee.

As a Harec player, I have to disagree with this. Any type of melee with Harec and Shae are going to be stealthily. You're gonna pick people off, not run head on. They are terrible in melee so generally you should avoid it. Like a sniper in any game, you rotate positions.

Also, another point, saying every other character should be boosted to keep up with one character... means that character is overpowered.
Lmao like it's not even funny how ridiculous she is, and people thought Hans Antags are bad? Ginebra is not only easy to play but in the right hands, unkillable. You can transform in melee combat if timed right after successful punch during the knockback animation, by the way.
It's actually funny because she is the most mobile character in the game and has more kill potential than the less mobile characters. And she has damage reduction.
You could say her downside is not being able to handle large mobs, but, grunts in this game like to group up. And her primary crossbow specializes in knocking foes together. 🙄🙄🙄

As soon as they fix literally everything else, they should fix her. Because if she is the most powerful character for a while, convinces more people to strive for her gear. Which means more money. Same as making Kuzmann like the only character with really good mob control.

[Treycol1]

Sounds like you need to just get better bud, because Ive played with ginebra and certain low leveled antagonist was burying me

[Netzavare]

Sounds like you need to just get better bud, because Ive played with ginebra and certain low leveled antagonist was burying me

Could be, I've only been playing for like a week now. But there have been other more experienced players in this thread and other threads who thinks she needs to be toned down a bit.

[boni_fan_gith]

I think Ginebra is, for the most part, in a pretty OK spot balance wise. However, her cougar form confuses me. Why can she stay transformed indefinitely? Hans needs to recharge his jetpack and Alicia needs to touch the ground in-between wall jumps. Ginebra can just keep running, keep climbing and stay hidden for as long as she wants. This is a HUGE problem if you're playing as antagonist and Ginebra is the last raider standing. She can prolong the match for as long as she wants!

Perhaps she should only be able to stay in cougar form for a set period of time (perhaps 7 seconds?). And introduce a character card that extends that time (to maybe 10 seconds?).

EDIT: I just realized many of you have already made the same points. Sorry if my post seems a bit redundant but at least many of us all agree!