Author Topic: Spacelords Update 11.3 Patch Notes  (Read 871 times)

Placelord

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Re: Spacelords Update 11.3 Patch Notes
Reply #15 on: November 24, 2018, 09:22:06 PM
Next update please oh please bring your voice chat to the forefront. Just have a prompt pop up the next/first time you log in. Have it give the option to turn it on, and inform them that it can also be toggled in the options.

I'm seeing a lot of complaints about antagonists, and I feel that communication would make invasions more enjoyable.

ArnoldCat

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Re: Spacelords Update 11.3 Patch Notes
Reply #16 on: November 24, 2018, 09:46:39 PM
Next update please oh please bring your voice chat to the forefront. Just have a prompt pop up the next/first time you log in. Have it give the option to turn it on, and inform them that it can also be toggled in the options.

I'm seeing a lot of complaints about antagonists, and I feel that communication would make invasions more enjoyable.



Yep, communication makes the difference.

PraxxtorCruel

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Re: Spacelords Update 11.3 Patch Notes
Reply #17 on: November 24, 2018, 10:34:06 PM
Voice chat is not the answer. Not everyone wants to do that. The most plausible solution is to make the antagonist system optional. Increase rewards for those who dont mind an antagonist invasion. Even when my team win against antagonists im still left feeling unimpressed. All that effort for what? I very much enjoy the PVE aspect and so do 2 of my mates i roll with. The forced PVP is killing it for us. The problem is there is too many high lvl players enjoying antagonizing because they know they get in matchups where theyre unstoppable. I didnt join this game to get floored by antags 3+ times my level. It ruins the experience. The PVE is truly fun but the PVP is unbalanced and an absolutely rage inducing experience. You have a gem of a game here but i feel the antag system lets it down which making me consider moving to another game. I feel as if this game is reaching a crossroads. They either do something about it or all youll have is a bunch of high lvl antags searching indefinitely for antag matches that dont exist as the raiders have all moved on.

LordDraco3

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Re: Spacelords Update 11.3 Patch Notes
Reply #18 on: November 25, 2018, 04:04:22 AM
After lots of playing both antag and raider last couple days, my full thoughts. IN SHORT: I like it.

Players are saying things feel easy now, that AI is weak, and that it therefore negatively affects Antagonists. I have played so many teams at 10-22% MMR lower than me that I am used to AI being dumb as rocks and weak as toilet paper. I have played a lot of antag matches the last 2 days and I didn't feel like it was that bad. AI has always been weak when I play anyways but I didn't feel they were any, uhh, weaker, when antag is present.

I actually won like 3 or 4 matches as Iune antag yesterday, lol. There are a lot more balance issues to consider, like how much more powerful certain weapons or cards are as a raider (Valeria's Whip, Kuzmann's Lichtbogen, or any weapon with a high rate of ammo consumption), or how certain cards just simply do not work for antagonists (Hive's stroma card, several of Iune's, Loaht/Alicia's cards that require multiple kills at once, and more).

And when playing as a Raider, the absurd difficulty spikes feel gone, which is great! I actually spent hours playing only locals (I need faction points), which is a faction I never play, and won all my matches as raider. Even as Harec, running a 15/15 bounty/affiliation Vindicta! I'm a terrible aim.

I know it seems weird to say that playing as both antag and raider things feel balanced, but it truly does compared to how difficulty USED to be, where you would get Terminator AI at 40% MMR that would 1-shot everything and have 500 HP. I went up to high 70's last night playing only locals and the AI felt well balanced. Still dangerous if you let them, but not absurd. Certain things were especially more difficult though, as MMR rises: Engineers, Beholder lock on time, and objective timers. 5th council barely stands a chance at extracting on HBaT, even if they just run and don't stop moving. So that should be reviewed.

As antag, I am encountering more players of higher level at higher MMR's, which is how the system SHOULD work.
Before: Everyone played at 30% MMR, because even at 35 you'd have random difficulty spikes that made missions feel impossible and not worth rising in difficulty. So I would antag with my 40% MMR and fight a team that's 30% and they have a level 400, 200, a 3 and a 2, mentor match. They would have teddy bear AI that are basically walking ammo crates and I'd have no help, but half the team could 1-shot me while the other half didn't know their ass from a hole in the ground.

So overall, I feel things are better balanced now. I consider myself a top tier player, and it was kinda silly that the best of the best could only reach a certain MMR before it became impossible to progress. If you're good, we should be able to hit 100% with a dedicated, solid, smart team, and be rewarded for it.

Now some people in discord have passed 100%, reaching 101+ and apparently it's bugged and the game considers them to just be 1%. their difficulty score went from 98% to 50% and it granted them 12/10 lives, with no enemies. This should be addressed as it seems like an unintended bug.



Also the rewards do not seem that much better at 90%+ than they do at 30 or 40% because rewards are based on final mission score alone. Let's say, a score of 9.1 at low MMR should not give the same exact rewards as a 9.1 at high MMR. Rewards should take more into consideration than simple final mission score. Perhaps add additional rewards onto the total based on each player's individual MMR, that way they get rewarded based on their skill level, in addition to the team average. So if a team that has a 20% and an 80% in it, the player high higher MMR walks away with more rewards. This will incentivize Raiders and Antagonists alike to want to keep a higher MMR if they have the ability to play at such a level.

Some players hear this issue with rewards and think "oh, there's still no incentive to go up in MMR, so I'll keep losing to keep it low." NO, this is the wrong thought process!
Previously, the reason players intentionally stayed low, was because the game got wayyyy too hard at certain MMR difficulty levels. This update definitely changed that, so now there is no incentive to deal with the annoying hassle of intentionally losing, whether you do it in a team, or do it as friendly antag. We all agree that lowing MMR was a terrible thing that we had to do because the game was too hard. Now we can filter players accross different MMR percentages based on their skill and level better, so we don't have a level 500 and a level 2 down at 30% which makes the game harder to balance. Players at such a difference of level being in the same team, either the noob will find the game impossible, or the veteran will find it too easy, or they just get frustrated with the noob. So with this update, I see no reason to keep wasting our time keeping our MMR low on purpose.  Even at 80% things don't feel that bad, and the discord team that has hit 100% found high 90's to be something like the old 60's, which wasn't easy, but wasn't impossible.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2018, 04:08:31 AM by LordDraco3 »

Placelord

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Re: Spacelords Update 11.3 Patch Notes
Reply #19 on: November 25, 2018, 04:15:33 AM
It's not a silver bullet. But this is a team based game. A main complaint is the difficulty. I posit that a considerable chunk of that difficulty is because of a lack of coordination.

I've had plenty of situations where I survived an antagonist encounter simply by being warned.

LordDraco3

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Re: Spacelords Update 11.3 Patch Notes
Reply #20 on: November 25, 2018, 04:26:56 AM
It's not a silver bullet. But this is a team based game. A main complaint is the difficulty. I posit that a considerable chunk of that difficulty is because of a lack of coordination.

I've had plenty of situations where I survived an antagonist encounter simply by being warned.

There have been plenty of situations and evidence in the past of enemies dealing 150 damage with 1 punch, having over 800 health, and shooting for over 60dmg per bullet with perfect accuracy. I also once spent over 8 hours one day trying to reach 100. In that 8 hours I went from 69% to 73%. It took too many games to go up in MMR, and if any antag joined, we would fight the terminators I just mentioned, which was impossible to beat, and the whole team would lose 2-3%. We gave up after a few antag losses setting us back down to high 60's like this.

When we say difficulty used to scale to impossible levels, it's not about coordination. Lots of us play in groups.

I antagged Hihsasuke today, I was high 70's, they were mid-80's. I lost due to Whip Valeria just deleting every enemy and Cookie+Schleuder blocking off any path I tried to advance on. So I can at least confirm that terminator AI with a lower-MMR antag seems to have finally been fixed.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2018, 04:29:35 AM by LordDraco3 »

Placelord

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Re: Spacelords Update 11.3 Patch Notes
Reply #21 on: November 25, 2018, 05:33:45 AM
Fair point. I haven't experienced those kinds of situations since I'm still relatively new. I did have a match last night where our lv 100+ teammate got disconnected at the beginning of the match. It was pretty much impossible to survive with the insane elite swarm.

Ac3_f4ce

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Re: Spacelords Update 11.3 Patch Notes
Reply #22 on: November 26, 2018, 06:13:53 PM
Ohhhhh this sounds like great news. And a lot high praise for the community. I havent jumped on Spacelords all weekend. I got something to look forward to today. And cant wait for Duplicate blueprints for gold to be implemented. Thank you MSE.

wwfdamorte

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Re: Spacelords Update 11.3 Patch Notes
Reply #23 on: November 28, 2018, 05:25:21 PM

you are wanting to kill the antagonist very easy should only have one survive so the game becomes very easy it is getting easier to take all the powers of the weapons the stage short wick was great that way and you decrease the amount of aleph and put another survive does so puts the option of not losing is only missing this because it is very easy to play raider
« Last Edit: November 28, 2018, 05:37:06 PM by wwfdamorte »

Placelord

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Re: Spacelords Update 11.3 Patch Notes
Reply #24 on: November 29, 2018, 07:59:34 PM
I think the gameplay, as is, is solid. The problems are all quality of life. The stuff that makes new players lose interest. What we need in the next patch is to cut down trolls, timesinks and encourage cooperative play.

Make voice chat default or prompt players to use it.
Make cutscenes skip based on votes.
Make the rewards screens skippable or parred down.
Allow people to surrender without penalty if the half or more disconnect and/or the match has gone on for over 45 mins.
Don't end matches when the antag disconnects.

These are all serious barriers to this game being widely adopted. Most gamers will just quit out the first or second time they lose 15 minutes getting thrashed or doing nothing.

LordDraco3

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Re: Spacelords Update 11.3 Patch Notes
Reply #25 on: December 03, 2018, 01:28:15 AM
I take it back. I experience antag games that have 0 enemies on the map now that I am playing at 70%. All enemies and bosses deal almost no damage. I fought raiders through 4 of Aneska's super moves, and didn't get any kills during them, because they were so weak. The raiders I am fighting are not even far off, they are within 3% MMR, but apparently because I play at 70%, it means the raiders get to be babied by weak, dumb AI that can't do anything, including spawn?

The other day I played 3 raider matches in a row.
1st match had an antag, HBaT. Really easy, wardogs died in 1 punch. Highest MMR game, in the 60's.

2nd match, no antag, MMR in the 50's but it was short fused and wardogs took 2 punches.

3rd game was a MENTOR MATCH with 2 babies and a final difficulty of 46%. This was the hardest game we played by far, spawns were crazy, was easily the hardest of all 3, on Weapon from the Past. I have antagged this map a LOT lately than I never see raiders have as many spawns as we had here. I was running Hooligan so it's hard to judge how weak they were to punches, but base damage wardogs took more than 1 punch. The wardog fatties that spawn every so often didn't even die to 1 full-damage Hooligan punch, but the commanders did.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2018, 01:58:01 AM by LordDraco3 »

PohtHehd

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Re: Spacelords Update 11.3 Patch Notes
Reply #26 on: December 03, 2018, 06:23:56 PM
I fought raiders through 4 of Aneska's super moves, and didn't get any kills during them, because they were so weak.

Wow. No joke, that is fucked up. Shit is fucked..still, sucks being an Antagonist.

Jester278

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Re: Spacelords Update 11.3 Patch Notes
Reply #27 on: December 07, 2018, 03:06:29 PM
We're actually getting less rewards for higher difficulty levels, and much more so when it's a mentor match with 3x under lv5 players on the higher levels that they shouldn't be allowed on.

The higher the difficulty means you lose more lives & are also more likely to fail, meaning scores anywhere between 0.5 & 6 depending on whether you complete the level in full or fail it.

This means you're likely to get anywhere between 300 & 1100 gold for up to 40 minutes work, yet the new players can still get up to 4800 for that same level, so, no, we're not seeing better rewards really are we?

flowone

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Re: Spacelords Update 11.3 Patch Notes
Reply #28 on: December 07, 2018, 08:00:56 PM
I think the gameplay, as is, is solid. The problems are all quality of life. The stuff that makes new players lose interest. What we need in the next patch is to cut down trolls, timesinks and encourage cooperative play.

Make voice chat default or prompt players to use it.
Make cutscenes skip based on votes.
Make the rewards screens skippable or parred down.
Allow people to surrender without penalty if the half or more disconnect and/or the match has gone on for over 45 mins.
Don't end matches when the antag disconnects.

These are all serious barriers to this game being widely adopted. Most gamers will just quit out the first or second time they lose 15 minutes getting thrashed or doing nothing.

Yes I agree with this. Especially the vote in cutscenes. So annoying that even though I set to skip, with the circle fully turning red and showing that it's about to skip some Lvl 1 player is like "nope I want to watch this even though most definitely the players who saw this 500 times already don't". Green eye in the red circle and we're watching ALL the cutscenes. Seriously? Vote on it and if they want to watch it do it in theater mode or solo the mission.

GhostZeroFour

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Re: Spacelords Update 11.3 Patch Notes
Reply #29 on: December 18, 2018, 11:00:59 PM
I think the gameplay, as is, is solid. The problems are all quality of life. The stuff that makes new players lose interest. What we need in the next patch is to cut down trolls, timesinks and encourage cooperative play.

Make voice chat default or prompt players to use it.
Make cutscenes skip based on votes.
Make the rewards screens skippable or parred down.
Allow people to surrender without penalty if the half or more disconnect and/or the match has gone on for over 45 mins.
Don't end matches when the antag disconnects.

These are all serious barriers to this game being widely adopted. Most gamers will just quit out the first or second time they lose 15 minutes getting thrashed or doing nothing.

Yes I agree with this. Especially the vote in cutscenes. So annoying that even though I set to skip, with the circle fully turning red and showing that it's about to skip some Lvl 1 player is like "nope I want to watch this even though most definitely the players who saw this 500 times already don't". Green eye in the red circle and we're watching ALL the cutscenes. Seriously? Vote on it and if they want to watch it do it in theater mode or solo the mission.

weird for me only the first cutscene does not skip instantly (most likely cause it is also used as a loading screen)

Gold for duplicates seems to be life  just got 2000 gold for a blue blueprint duplicate making blueprint duplicates less valuable than the onetime high gold reward that another mission would have given to me (still lowlvl at 21) But what bugs me way more is that i havent seen ANY blueprints beside the onetime daisy (levelup reward) and upgrade ones for the basic guns...