Author Topic: My opinion on infinite ammo  (Read 2247 times)

Hopperorouk

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My opinion on infinite ammo
on: September 20, 2019, 01:25:10 AM
In my opinion i think it's unnecessary,
As a RAIDER that is...
One of the things i love about this game is having to run out of ammo...and thinking "oh shute i need to be careful, to get some more"
Having infinite ammo feels so lazy and boring

Raiders are supposed to be on a singular mission, their resources are limited and they're outnumbered...

As for antagonists they're supposed to be fully prepared for battle, and equipped with excess ammo
So either make this infinite ammo option for antagonists only
Or drop ammo on specific platforms like the current aleph system

i hope you see this :)

lofikidtroy

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Re: My opinion on infinite ammo
Reply #1 on: September 20, 2019, 03:27:35 AM
Honestly I don't think it's too bad of a change. *Most* raiders tend to not suffer from ammo problems, and the acquisition of ammo was extremely easy. Running over drunkenly to some recently deceased enemies broke the flow of combat, and the whole "ammo drop" shtick felt too weird and arcadey to me.       
           
Ammo issues were pretty prevalent on antag though, as without infinite hordes of grunts to slay, you really have to keep your ammo intake up, since left without bullets usually meant the raiders could steamroll you for a bit till you can get close enough for melee strikes. The ammo bar is something I actually found myself looking at frequently while antagging, and proper management of ammo could help ensure your success.       
                       
I kinda wish it just gets reverted to the original "melee to steal ammo" thing, but seeing as that isn't an option, I'd like to think infinite ammo is the next best thing.

Dagg73

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Re: My opinion on infinite ammo
Reply #2 on: September 20, 2019, 01:49:28 PM
I ve been playing this AWESOME game since the beta was out two years ago. Too many changes if you remember the original gameplay. Most of them are positive BUT infinite AMMO for the raiders in my opinion is a terrible mistake. Spacelords wouldn´t be so tactical. Infinite ammo only for the antagonist would be GREAT!!! I ve played as antagonist thousand of times and the ammunition was one of the big troubles in order to get the game more balanced.

Dave Cox said "Raiders of the Broken Planet" is a "thinking shooter". So Mercury "think twice" please if you re going to implement infinite ammo!!!
« Last Edit: September 20, 2019, 01:51:41 PM by Dagg73 »

Engelsgaard

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Re: My opinion on infinite ammo
Reply #3 on: September 23, 2019, 09:08:10 AM
I'm a bit worried that weapons were balanced for limited ammo, and now they aren't balanced anymore.
On the other side, I welcome change since the game is getting a bit boring without it.
So MSE, keep the changes coming. Just be ready to either undo some changes (if they turn out to be a mistake) or to adjust weapons that become unbalanced.

ScimitarSlice

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Re: My opinion on infinite ammo
Reply #4 on: September 24, 2019, 02:40:15 PM
Is the Melee CQC fixed yet?  I was watching streamers and it looked like there was lots of problems the last few months.

The Ammo and Aleph should reverted to pre identity update, with the caveat of dropping the aleph gem if you already have a 5 stack.  I think that's what most players want.  To this day no one has given me an explanation why it had to be changed, other than "to experiment," which is bad answer, because in this stage of the game they should be conservative and stick with what they know people like, and discard what people don't.  There's is no time left to turn people off or acquire bad reputations.   

Deadlyweiss

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Re: My opinion on infinite ammo
Reply #5 on: September 24, 2019, 04:10:24 PM
Is the Melee CQC fixed yet?  I was watching streamers and it looked like there was lots of problems the last few months.

If you read the patchnotes, there will be some bug fixing related to this in the upcoming update.

MSE_Ojuel

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Re: My opinion on infinite ammo
Reply #6 on: September 24, 2019, 06:43:08 PM
Is the Melee CQC fixed yet?  I was watching streamers and it looked like there was lots of problems the last few months.

The Ammo and Aleph should reverted to pre identity update, with the caveat of dropping the aleph gem if you already have a 5 stack.  I think that's what most players want.  To this day no one has given me an explanation why it had to be changed, other than "to experiment," which is bad answer, because in this stage of the game they should be conservative and stick with what they know people like, and discard what people don't.  There's is no time left to turn people off or acquire bad reputations.   

The Heavy Metal udpate includes several latency-related CQC bug fixes.

When it comes to Aleph drops, HM will feature an improved drop positioning algorithm so that it's easier see the gems that fall off a character after killing him/her. We've also been fixing post-finisher invulnerability times, so that players have a safe time margin within they're able to grab the Gem.

While experimentation is always important during a development, it doesn't necessarily mean it's a blind, aimless experimentation:
- Aleph drops let us make the whole Aleph overloads management more accessible for new players by giving it a visual representation in the physical word instead of being a HUD-only feature. The tutorial we added to the game clearly shows that.
- Aleph overloads' visual presence in the world also lets us to provide Gems to the players in new, alternative ways, such as the Aleph Natural deposits.
The HM update also features a cool gameplay plot-twist on the feature, letting players use Aleph Gems as grenades (Gemnades is such a cool name) in a much more fun and controllable fashion.

That said, we're currently working on trying to bring the old "elite-hunt-for-Aleph" gameplay dynamics, since some people in the community miss those magical moments that got lost on the way. We'll try to have it ready before the EF patch gets released, but it's still a bit early to tell.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2019, 06:52:25 PM by MSE_Ojuel »

Hopperorouk

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Re: My opinion on infinite ammo
Reply #7 on: September 25, 2019, 11:09:07 AM
Is the Melee CQC fixed yet?  I was watching streamers and it looked like there was lots of problems the last few months.

The Ammo and Aleph should reverted to pre identity update, with the caveat of dropping the aleph gem if you already have a 5 stack.  I think that's what most players want.  To this day no one has given me an explanation why it had to be changed, other than "to experiment," which is bad answer, because in this stage of the game they should be conservative and stick with what they know people like, and discard what people don't.  There's is no time left to turn people off or acquire bad reputations.   

The Heavy Metal udpate includes several latency-related CQC bug fixes.

When it comes to Aleph drops, HM will feature an improved drop positioning algorithm so that it's easier see the gems that fall off a character after killing him/her. We've also been fixing post-finisher invulnerability times, so that players have a safe time margin within they're able to grab the Gem.

While experimentation is always important during a development, it doesn't necessarily mean it's a blind, aimless experimentation:
- Aleph drops let us make the whole Aleph overloads management more accessible for new players by giving it a visual representation in the physical word instead of being a HUD-only feature. The tutorial we added to the game clearly shows that.
- Aleph overloads' visual presence in the world also lets us to provide Gems to the players in new, alternative ways, such as the Aleph Natural deposits.
The HM update also features a cool gameplay plot-twist on the feature, letting players use Aleph Gems as grenades (Gemnades is such a cool name) in a much more fun and controllable fashion.

That said, we're currently working on trying to bring the old "elite-hunt-for-Aleph" gameplay dynamics, since some people in the community miss those magical moments that got lost on the way. We'll try to have it ready before the EF patch gets released, but it's still a bit early to tell.

This is unrelated but i'm so happy that you guys show us that you constantly look at feedback and reply to us always
So thank you for that
I hope you Never change this part of the community <3

ScimitarSlice

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Re: My opinion on infinite ammo
Reply #8 on: September 25, 2019, 12:06:30 PM
I appreciate the response, but what makes the game most inaccessible for new players was not the aleph.  It was the passives/poor matchmaking (getting matched with veteran antags as a noob raider), and confusing inconsistent MMR.

Yes I agree, getting aleph from the elites did feel magical.  New COD is coming out soon and is going suck players from ALL other games, including spacelords.  I tried the beta and it felt amazing, even though I don't really like those mindless no-strategy type of games.  If I was you I'd make my experimentation decisions and all prioritization decisions wisely, as this will be a new and powerful dynamic in the gaming business (Black Ops 4 was a huge letdown, there is a big hunger for new COD). 

This is coming from someone who would like to see spacelords reach it's maximum potential.  Best wishes. 



 

MSE_Ojuel

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Re: My opinion on infinite ammo
Reply #9 on: September 25, 2019, 12:31:58 PM
I appreciate the response, but what makes the game most inaccessible for new players was not the aleph.  It was the passives/poor matchmaking (getting matched with veteran antags as a noob raider), and confusing inconsistent MMR.

Yes I agree, getting aleph from the elites did feel magical.  New COD is coming out soon and is going suck players from ALL other games, including spacelords.  I tried the beta and it felt amazing, even though I don't really like those mindless no-strategy type of games.  If I was you I'd make my experimentation decisions and all prioritization decisions wisely, as this will be a new and powerful dynamic in the gaming business (Black Ops 4 was a huge letdown, there is a big hunger for new COD). 

This is coming from someone who would like to see spacelords reach it's maximum potential.  Best wishes.

Thank you for your advice. :)

Accessibility is a global issue that's not related to a single element in the game, but to several different ones (control, tutorial, Aleph & ammo management, gunplay, melee..etc.).
That's one of the reasons why, as you suggested, we are also removing player level-tied passives from the game and have been working on improving matchmaking as well.

Hopperorouk

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Re: My opinion on infinite ammo
Reply #10 on: September 25, 2019, 01:45:44 PM
I appreciate the response, but what makes the game most inaccessible for new players was not the aleph.  It was the passives/poor matchmaking (getting matched with veteran antags as a noob raider), and confusing inconsistent MMR.

Yes I agree, getting aleph from the elites did feel magical.  New COD is coming out soon and is going suck players from ALL other games, including spacelords.  I tried the beta and it felt amazing, even though I don't really like those mindless no-strategy type of games.  If I was you I'd make my experimentation decisions and all prioritization decisions wisely, as this will be a new and powerful dynamic in the gaming business (Black Ops 4 was a huge letdown, there is a big hunger for new COD). 

This is coming from someone who would like to see spacelords reach it's maximum potential.  Best wishes.

Thank you for your advice. :)

Accessibility is a global issue that's not related to a single element in the game, but to several different ones (control, tutorial, Aleph & ammo management, gunplay, melee..etc.).
That's one of the reasons why, as you suggested, we are also removing player level-tied passives from the game and have been working on improving matchmaking as well.

Since you're going to remove level passives, any plan on reducing the MMR difficulty since we won't be as resilient as before? (That if we were resilient enough to survive past 40% MMr)