Author Topic: MMR is a poor mechanic  (Read 200 times)

Whatever

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 3
    • View Profile
MMR is a poor mechanic
on: February 12, 2019, 04:38:29 AM
MMR.

The bane of my life. I understand that it's supposed to match me with similarly skilled players but it doesn't does it? Because the player pool is so small you end up getting matched with people of all levels. OK, I would rather play than wait; but because the difficulty is set through some arcane mix of everyone's MMR, each players star sign and whether or not Mercury is in retrograde or ascending it means I have literally no idea how difficult a level is going to be.

Sometimes its a total cakewalk and I can fart my way through it.

Sometimes it's more difficult than embalming yourself while singing the Nepalise national anthem.

There is no consistency and that's the problem.

NONE.

It annoys the F* out of me. I don't always want to go up against enemies stronger than the Hulk. Sometimes I just want to have fun and play a game rather than constantly struggle to just breathe because even the baseline mooks are as strong as tier 1 Avengers.

When this game is fun - something that does not have a direct correlation with difficulty - it is a huge amount of fun! However at the same time I feel the game does its level best to avoid being fun far too often to be funny.

The option to set the difficulty myself, at the level I want to play at the time is the answer here. I'd imagine it would also help with keeping players too as they would have some granular control of the difficulty of the game as opposed to being thrown in with people who have several hundred levels more experience than them.

All I want is some semblance of consistency. I just want to know what kind of game I'm going to play.


Quanrian

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 336
  • Eat the game before it devours your life!
    • View Profile
Re: MMR is a poor mechanic
Reply #1 on: February 12, 2019, 05:45:48 AM
I really enjoyed reading this. You write in a very dramatic fashion.

If it's not already known I've never been a fan of MMR and pined for more standardized difficulties. Then, we could just collectively choose and get matched up with those of a similar preference. To me, MMR always seemed like complexity for complexity's sake. Just hearing it explained gave me a headache where a more straightforward approach would achieve the same goal with far less confusion. However, once we settled on fixed difficulties where an idea of what was what we could 'then' think on layering in 'additional' challenges to spice things up! Try adding in anything on top of MMR now and it's just going to further the confusion.

Currently, I'm sitting at 70ish... and honestly I spend a bit of time evaluating a match. This isn't particularly bad but when I think of the amount of effort being put into making this system relevant and valuable through so very many iterations I wonder if that time wouldn't be better spent elsewhere. Frankly, this system has had a year to gestate and it never gained much favor but was easily scapegoated for any number of issues.

I digress, I really do think you all at Mercury Steam are doing a fantastic job but I question where passion and sensibility buck heads. Regardless, I will keep playing despite my own personal frustrations because you all are very obviously pouring your hearts and souls into this Deus Ex Machina we call Spacelords! See you all out there!

B30

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 160
    • View Profile
Re: MMR is a poor mechanic
Reply #2 on: February 12, 2019, 02:23:56 PM
… Currently, I'm sitting at 70ish... and honestly I spend a bit of time evaluating a match. This isn't particularly bad but when I think of the amount of effort being put into making this system relevant and valuable through so very many iterations I wonder if that time wouldn't be better spent elsewhere. …

I always try to stay between the late 40s and 60, so that the waiting times are bearable.

Power Penguin

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 244
    • View Profile
Re: MMR is a poor mechanic
Reply #3 on: February 12, 2019, 04:11:17 PM
I really enjoyed reading this. You write in a very dramatic fashion.

If it's not already known I've never been a fan of MMR and pined for more standardized difficulties. Then, we could just collectively choose and get matched up with those of a similar preference. To me, MMR always seemed like complexity for complexity's sake. Just hearing it explained gave me a headache where a more straightforward approach would achieve the same goal with far less confusion. However, once we settled on fixed difficulties where an idea of what was what we could 'then' think on layering in 'additional' challenges to spice things up! Try adding in anything on top of MMR now and it's just going to further the confusion.

Currently, I'm sitting at 70ish... and honestly I spend a bit of time evaluating a match. This isn't particularly bad but when I think of the amount of effort being put into making this system relevant and valuable through so very many iterations I wonder if that time wouldn't be better spent elsewhere. Frankly, this system has had a year to gestate and it never gained much favor but was easily scapegoated for any number of issues.

I digress, I really do think you all at Mercury Steam are doing a fantastic job but I question where passion and sensibility buck heads. Regardless, I will keep playing despite my own personal frustrations because you all are very obviously pouring your hearts and souls into this Deus Ex Machina we call Spacelords! See you all out there!

I share similar sentiments to you Quan. MMR seems like a lot more trouble than it's worth. People make the argument that implementing a standard difficulty system would split the community, but right now all MMR does is inflate difficulty for the new players playing with vets. Making the new players leave because they feel difficulty balance is off. MSE said that MMR would in theory work better with a larger community, but the community really isn't growing substantially enough to merit MMR. Another argument that MSE made is that it would make matches more dynamic. Flooding the map with enemies in high MMR isn't dynamic, it's bullsh*t.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2019, 04:15:21 PM by Power Penguin »

Tekato

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 228
    • View Profile
Re: MMR is a poor mechanic
Reply #4 on: February 12, 2019, 05:14:14 PM
I hate mmr too but currently I don't think we have enough active players to have everyone queued up for different maps on different difficulties.

PohtHehd

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 140
    • View Profile
Re: MMR is a poor mechanic
Reply #5 on: February 13, 2019, 11:24:09 AM
...This isn't particularly bad but when I think of the amount of effort being put into making this system relevant and valuable through so very many iterations I wonder if that time wouldn't be better spent elsewhere...

I think you may be seriously overestimating how much effort they need to put into changing the MMR system. As I understand it they can switch all sorts of stuff without patching the game. It probably doesn't take long to make adjustments.

Get good, scrub.

I don't especially agree with this but isn't it really at the heart of it all?

If people were winning their matches then we wouldn't see threads like this. Several nights in a row I have been helping low level players from discord and we will win every single match. And some of those matches are in high 50% MMR. We never felt like the challenge was insurmountable, even when we had a random that was even lower level than the other guys.

Even with a T1 Antagonist goin' ham on us.

Now you might say that below 70% MMR is shooting fish in a barrel and I would agree. But, really, what do you get out of such a high MMR? You are just buffing the AI for no reason at all. There are people who already got to 100 MMR and they found it wanting.

So, what exactly is the point? There has to be some type of matchmaking system.

And, because for real this thread is always popping up, fixed difficulties would just make people choose one with the most reward for the least challenge. The game is already designed in that fashion.

I guess it is elitist to think this way but if you can't win the match with the challenge presented to you then isn't the MMR doing its job? You're not supposed to have an easy time the whole way through. You're supposed to lose some matches occasionally and every MMR system will eventually set you up to fail.

Whatever

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 3
    • View Profile
Re: MMR is a poor mechanic
Reply #6 on: February 13, 2019, 03:53:21 PM
Hello Pohthehd,

Long time no see.

I get where you're coming from with this but my point is more about 'fun'. This is an objective viewpoint as what I think is fun you might not, additionally what I think is fun at certain points changes too but that flexibility isn't accommodated by the game in any way shape or form.

The game is difficult, we all know that, but when the difficulty precludes you from actually enjoying the game then it stops being fun and I don't want that. I don't think any of us do. I'm happy to play at an MMR that makes the game fun, where I enjoy the challenge but the challenge should be tailored to me as a gamer and what I'm looking for at that time, or I should at least be given that choice. The only choice I have at the moment is suck it up, suicide till the level is fun or just don't play. None of those are great options.

I played two matches today with unranked players and they both disconnected - presumably due to the difficulty - and honestly I don't really blame them. It's not as if there's no other choices out there for them to spend their time having fun as opposed to getting their faces mashed by a foot solider again and again and again without having any impact on the gameworld. It's not fun for them. It's not fun for me when they disconnect as I know that's likely another player the community has lost because the game doesn't show itself to be fun nor give players the choice to tailor their experience to what they think is fun.

And, finally, anyone who still uses 'git gud' (which the other poster spelt incorrectly, so I guess he better git gud scrub with his use of internet slang from four years ago...)  isn't adding anything to the discourse, they're just unimaginative and desperate for attention.