Mercurysteam's Hangout
BARRACKS => Gameplay Feedback => Topic started by: Jenetikz on October 15, 2018, 09:00:09 AM
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LOL really.... the mission didn't even last 5 minutes.
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I'm sure you guys put up a good fight though.
(https://media.giphy.com/media/ZLPsKWJA4v0go/giphy.gif)
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How do people even grind to lv 500 without dying of boredom. After lv 200 you don't get any stronger since you're max forge and stats. So at around lv 250+ you should have pretty much every character and weapons that you want unlocked/maxed out. I really don't see myself playing this game much after lv 300.
I mean don't get me wrong, game is fun and all but damn lv 500 that'll take a while.
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NO!! It'fun. Stop your complaining, this is FUN goddamn it. PvP isn't the problem, YOU are the problem. High level opponents with maxed out weapons, stats and rare cards is just an excuse. You being in a mentor match with a baby Harecs and two pre level 100 players is an excuse. GUT GUD! And don't complain because this is the "vision" and how it's supposed to be. You BETTER have fun with this scenario, because it's blasphemy to think otherwise and it will always be your fault.
/s
Again, PvP should be optional. We clearly can't trust the system to work.
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NO!! It'fun. Stop your complaining, this is FUN goddamn it. PvP isn't the problem, YOU are the problem. High level opponents with maxed out weapons, stats and rare cards is just an excuse. You being in a mentor match with a baby Harecs and two pre level 100 players is an excuse. GUT GUD! And don't complain because this is the "vision" and how it's supposed to be. You BETTER have fun with this scenario, because it's blasphemy to think otherwise and it will always be your fault.
/s
Again, PvP should be optional. We clearly can't trust the system to work.
All they said was that they lost. Why are you trying to turn this into something it isn't?
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They said it took less than 5 minutes. This would imply they aren't pleased with this, otherwise they wouldn't have posted if they felt going against a level 500 was normal. My response was based on the ongoing criticism of those who point out that PvP should be optional. People state things like "this is a core mechanic...", "the devs are sticking with PvP, get over it..." and "you just need to accept it and git gud...". I pointing out that this is another example of those arguments not holding any water. Clearly there is a problem.
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I wonder how many times you used the "Git Gud" as one of your examples, you bring it up alot. Don't you think your a little over the top, I can picture you with a Megaphone at MS studios trying to get there attention lol. srry
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I wonder how many times you used the "Git Gud" as one of your examples, you bring it up alot. Don't you think your a little over the top, I can picture you with a Megaphone at MS studios trying to get there attention lol. srry
There was a very long thread discussing optional antags and one of the forced antag supporters actually made the 'git gud' argument. So while it may seem overused, it is actually an argument made in defense of antags.
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Oh, I always heard it from Drow only but yeah it is a weak explanation.
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Oh, I always heard it from Drow only but yeah it is a weak explanation.
It was sarcasm. Of course I think "git gud" is a terrible response to people who are lamenting PvP, I'm one of those people who would like optional PvP. But I have been told on numerous occasion on these forums to "git gud" in response.
So no, I don't think it's over the top for me to parody those who have said it. No more than it was over the top for them to say it in the first place. And if you think it's over the top for THEM to say it then that's precisely my point.
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Let us all just git gud.
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So, once you get to a high level, you are no longer allowed to play the game, so says the community. How dare someone enjoy the experience
Cool. Got it.
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So, once you get to a high level, you are no longer allowed to play the game, so says the community. How dare someone enjoy the experience
Cool. Got it.
So here's a question for you... is it fair for a level 500 antag to play against low level players?
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So, once you get to a high level, you are no longer allowed to play the game, so says the community. How dare someone enjoy the experience
Cool. Got it.
no one's saying that. I think people above level 150 should only fight people above level 150 in general. Sure, the level 500 could claim the right to want to play the game, but the level 20 also has the right to hate it because as we know, it is unfair.
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My thoughts exactly, what are we supposed to do, retire to mentor matches and forget about Pvp. Yes it was unfortunate though that, that had happened and he should of Antagged someone more his level but either side isn't really at fault. As it stands this is how it is and hopefuly things change for the better.
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Define "low level"
I think people above level 150 should only fight people above level 150 in general.
So when a team has a mixed bag of levels, they cannot encounter this player? You have a 200, 300, 100, and a 20, and no antag can ever play? Because a lot of groups are mixed up like this. It's so easy to just claim that a low level should never ever encounter a high level, but since this game matches people up in a squad regardless of level, that complicates matchmaking.
The OP literally gave ZERO details other than "I fought a high level player and got creamed"
And the anti-pvp squad is rushing to the defense, knowing literally nothing else about the match, other than Mean old Mr. No Life Virgin Basement Dweller was here to wreck someone's match. How dare someone play a game they like a lot which naturally levels you up with games played, and they want to play antag mode.
Honestly it might be better to ditch MMR-based matchmaking and move to level-based. That's how the Aequilibrium is tiered, after all, and literally no one likes the MMR system.
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That's how the Aequilibrium is tiered, after all, and literally no one likes the MMR system.
This is my personal opinion but I think the only thing good that came out of the MMR system was the Mentor Matches as it helps grow the community. And even if it technically isn't a Mentor Match when I get paired with levels between 50 through 150 I feel that in its own way feels like a higher form of MM's.....idk
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Define "low level"
I think people above level 150 should only fight people above level 150 in general.
So when a team has a mixed bag of levels, they cannot encounter this player? You have a 200, 300, 100, and a 20, and no antag can ever play? Because a lot of groups are mixed up like this. It's so easy to just claim that a low level should never ever encounter a high level, but since this game matches people up in a squad regardless of level, that complicates matchmaking.
The OP literally gave ZERO details other than "I fought a high level player and got creamed"
And the anti-pvp squad is rushing to the defense, knowing literally nothing else about the match, other than Mean old Mr. No Life Virgin Basement Dweller was here to wreck someone's match. How dare someone play a game they like a lot which naturally levels you up with games played, and they want to play antag mode.
Honestly it might be better to ditch MMR-based matchmaking and move to level-based. That's how the Aequilibrium is tiered, after all, and literally no one likes the MMR system.
Premades would be a different thing, I agree. You're right that he didn't say anything more. I just assumed. I hope he lets us know more though. I'm guessing he has to be somewhat new, because anyone above level 100 wouldn't care about seeing a level 500, unless it was a certain Herec player.
Note: Just so everyone knows, everyone who is level 150 or above is essentially the same. You're stats are maxed out, what cards you can get are maxed, the characters you can get, the forge level, etc... after this point if you are level 150 and see a level 9000 it doesn't make a difference.
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(https://image.ibb.co/kOWiff/beehive.jpg)
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(https://image.ibb.co/kOWiff/beehive.jpg)
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/492522020580491285.png?v=1)
Yup, this sums us up pretty nicely
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@LordDraco3
I noted a similar example in another thread. Let me just quote myself: "I just ran into wwfdamorte who is level 492 in a mentor match. The problem was that he was the antag and we had a level 3, an 8, a 73 and an 81."
So if you play in the NBA, is it fair to go all out against other professional players? College athletes? High school athletes? At a charity event (with other pros)? Against grade school children?
Obviously you will draw the line somewhere because you realize that it's not about just you but about letting everyone who is playing enjoy the game.
In the end no matter how skilled me or the level 73 player were in that mentor match, it was not going to be a fun experience for the level 3 or 8 against an antag with that much experience. I don't think anyone is saying you can't have fun playing, but at some point you have to realize that you having fun can hurt the experience of others, particularly new players. It's not the antags fault, but that doesn't mean you should give 100% when you know that the other team isn't at your level. That's just dickish behavior.
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Oh I'm sorry I didn't know the details was that important lvl 58 (me) lvl 245 lvl 132 and a lvl 60 on the hanging on a thread mission lvl 500 hans from the gates of Shaolin flew around shooting everyone his gun instant weak off the first hit and he came in with the finisher until lycas died lol
for the record, I wasn't complaining the game, no one is saying high levels can't play. I'm coming from the standpoint of "oh well there wasn't anything I or anyone can do to take the guy down" (shrug) I was smoking the entire time I was getting smoked so no one is a complaining about the game cause It the only thing I play.
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@LordDraco3
I noted a similar example in another thread. Let me just quote myself: "I just ran into wwfdamorte who is level 492 in a mentor match. The problem was that he was the antag and we had a level 3, an 8, a 73 and an 81."
So if you play in the NBA, is it fair to go all out against other professional players? College athletes? High school athletes? At a charity event (with other pros)? Against grade school children?
Obviously you will draw the line somewhere because you realize that it's not about just you but about letting everyone who is playing enjoy the game.
In the end no matter how skilled me or the level 73 player were in that mentor match, it was not going to be a fun experience for the level 3 or 8 against an antag with that much experience. I don't think anyone is saying you can't have fun playing, but at some point you have to realize that you having fun can hurt the experience of others, particularly new players. It's not the antags fault, but that doesn't mean you should give 100% when you know that the other team isn't at your level. That's just dickish behavior.
Homeboy most def was on that lol
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The levels of your team look fine to me, I would not consider anyone there to be "noobs" and they are all far from falling into the criteria of mentor match status. If I were that antag, I'd definitely be playing to win.
Like Drow said, being level 500 or 999 is just a number. Once you hit level 200, there's nothing beyond. 199 is max forge and 200 is final set of character cards. I'm willing to bet I know the lv 500 player too, there's not a whole lot of them. At least 2 or 3 people in my regular group are that high. I would be, but I play other games and don't have as much free time, so I'm just mid-200's. Again, level 500 is statistically no stronger than someone my level.
@Hiero-- so again, it sounds like you are suggesting a player at an astronomically high level is just plain not allowed to play the game, because levels seem to be the most important measuring stick? I've lost to teams much lower than me and won against teams higher. Level is just a measurement of play time. There are stats involved, but not as large of a difference as many make the claim to be, and they cap out.
For a player at level 500, 600, or even eventually when the cap is hit, when someone is 999? What is the imaginary like that you would personally draw at play vs. no play when you have to sit in queue to get randomly matched? We've gone over this so many times already, if I'm going to sit in queue, and I happen to get matched up against some low-mid levels, that's not my fault. It really isn't a dick move to just want to play the game, no matter what kind of grudge you have against antag mode as a whole.
I don't play as much as I used to, but when I do, I'm not turning the game on for 4 hours to sit out 4 or 5 matches because there's a level 2 in every match. Which is what it sounds like you're suggesting, lest I be pulling "a dick move"
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@LordDraco3
Of course it's not a dick move to want to play the game, but against a team with a level 3 and an 8? Don't pretend that is even remotely fair. And yes, it's dickish to dunk over an 8th grader and block all of their shots, which is exactly what he did to them repeatedly. If you don't see the problem in that then I don't know what to say, maybe you're just that kind of person.
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Tea, I have to agree with LordDraco, your group was pretty strong sounding in terms of levels and what would be available. At this point he was just really good as antag, but the difference in base power is fairly negligible.
What character was he playing? What weapon did he have with that character? This means a lot here, and a level 500 would have more than enough time to figure out what the best characters to use against you on that map and what weapons.
EDIT: Nevermind, I must have missed it. Hans.
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@Drow, he mentioned it was Hans antag, fwiw, on HBaT. A solid pick in general, and what I often would use if I don't see more than 1 Council
@Hiero- again, please answer when you would deem it acceptable to play antag. A lot of teams involve low level players. I've lost to a team of 4x players all below level 100, and I've beaten teams with much higher levels than mine. I've played enough to know that level is not skill, but you are implying it's unfair to fight people based on level alone. So, please, when would it be acceptable for a level 999 to fight?
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@Hiero- again, please answer when you would deem it acceptable to play antag. A lot of teams involve low level players. I've lost to a team of 4x players all below level 100, and I've beaten teams with much higher levels than mine. I've played enough to know that level is not skill, but you are implying it's unfair to fight people based on level alone. So, please, when would it be acceptable for a level 999 to fight?
1) I actually suggested hiding player level and instead only showing Tier # as a way to alleviate the large discrepancies in another thread.
2) I don't care if the antag is just level 200 or 9,999, they shouldn't be ganking level 3 and 8 players. There is no skill in that.
3) MMR (skill as you call it) can easily be manipulated. In my case the antag had an MMR in the mid 30's. Maybe this was correct but he seemed far more skilled than that value indicated.
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Aequilibrium tier would make more sense, yeah. We need an alternative to MMR-based matchmaking since, like you said, it is easily manipulated. And the current state of the game makes MMR-adjustments something we have to do as players, since virtually no one finds playing at high MMR enjoyable, across the board.
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Tea, I have to agree with LordDraco, your group was pretty strong sounding in terms of levels and what would be available. At this point he was just really good as antag, but the difference in base power is fairly negligible.
What character was he playing? What weapon did he have with that character? This means a lot here, and a level 500 would have more than enough time to figure out what the best characters to use against you on that map and what weapons.
EDIT: Nevermind, I must have missed it. Hans.
Hans from the gates of Shaolin or from hell lol. Like I said when I saw the group I was like ok we should be good for any antag it's just the first mission and then I saw the 500 antag I was like "huh?? we can go that high?? there are level 500 cards??" Once I saw how quick he was taking out the group, I was just in shock his gun and his melee's was doing one hit kills. Like i said in my first post "thoughts and tidbits" I don't really care if a antag jumps in they gotta eat too. Plus when my friends like when I make vids of playing against antags keep me on my toes. I was antagging a lot when it was raiders and plus I know this game is still raw so the fixes will come patience is the key.
Now if you wanna know whats wild to me. When I play and antag is just really good and someone jumps on the chat starts raging that crap is annoying and gets old.
I don't know its just a game to me. I know we put the time in but man ppl gotta relax a bit the antag job is to stop us lol why get mad ?? that what makes me not want the game anymore, I know a L is coming but you don't have to rage to the L lol
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@Drow, he mentioned it was Hans antag, fwiw, on HBaT. A solid pick in general, and what I often would use if I don't see more than 1 Council
@Hiero- again, please answer when you would deem it acceptable to play antag. A lot of teams involve low level players. I've lost to a team of 4x players all below level 100, and I've beaten teams with much higher levels than mine. I've played enough to know that level is not skill, but you are implying it's unfair to fight people based on level alone. So, please, when would it be acceptable for a level 999 to fight?
I gotta agree with you on the 2nd one cause when I was like 38 or something using Alicia and smoking daisy I was in a group with a 40 hans 50 Ayana and 15 baby Hearc and I kid you not we doooooggggggged the crap out this Lvl 256 shae on No reservations I mean it was bad we were hitting max 5 so quick and that's was before the final phase. like the entire match. Sometimes you just get a group of ppl that with coordination on the fly and theres nothing wrong with that but I think where hiero points out when its a below 10 its becomes a problem, imo I think its the young age groups thats doing that cause when I'm in a group with some adults we get's it in lol