How does this interact with cards that grant invulerability, like Mikah's Photon Shield?

Quote from: Hiero_Glyph on October 24, 2018, 10:23:42 PM

It's slightly more complicated than that since you do need to incentivize players to pay as/against an antag, otherwise queue times will suffer for the antag mode. As I noted, I don't think giving better rewards is the answer but if MSE added monthly challenges then players could reach specific milestones and get additional rewards.

For example, you could earn faction/gold for missions completed, missions won, kills/assists vs players, recovering from a downed state, etc. These would reset every month and the best rewards would require a high number of games and skilled play to achieve. It should be noted that these challenges would not be attainable in the PvE-only mode.

That’s just not true and one of the issues in the logic of some pvp players, not only in this game. Those that play pvp should do so 1st and foremost simply because they enjoy it, pvp should not get anything  more ideally, when devs are fair, that said, I wouldn’t mind if they want to give extra currency (gold, fp, whatever) as long as they don’t block actual content, like bps, cosmetics, etc to pvp.

That's a shortsighted viewpoint. Players want the most reward for the least effort. Anyway, my suggestion would allow PvE players to enjoy the game without ever running into an antag, but it would also provide a play list that is true to the developers original intent. The only exception is that it does so in a manner that is very similar to the current battle pass using challenges and additional rewards such as gold and faction points upon attaining specific milestones. It takes nothing away from PvE and gives them the ability to enjoy the game unhindered by antags.

Honestly, if you don't see this as a win-win for everyone then you want the game to be something different than what MSE intended.

I play as an Antag because iits fun. I like playing against other players. I like being an antag and I like fighting Antags.

Now here's my question. If Antagonist missions rewarded more gold, faction, and XP would you be ok with Antagonist missions? This applies to both roles.

Now you're understanding. I'm not against the antag system and I actually enjoy it. My problem is that the rewards do not scale based on the effort and this is what I am hoping MSE will improve.

Other things like preventing antags in mentor matches is more about player retention. Hiding player levels and only showing their tier wouk also help in making things appear more even and less unfair. Making queueing against antags optional would also keep player numbers up, but to compensate MSE needs to create exclusive rewards/challenges that are only available when playing as/against an antag. This would also let MSE create a 4v1 mode that always has an antag. So the goal isn't to remove antags from the game but to make them a benefit for everyone.

We are not ruining anything, we are just playing the game as it was intended. MSE made this game.  Not us. Do you understand? This was never a just PVE game. If players are coming into this game expecting to only play PVE they are mistaken. That's on them not MSE.

What, no 'get good' to go with that flimsy rationale? As it stands now the antagonist system has no benefit to the community other than flipping to antag cards. So you can talk about how it's part of the game all you want, but that doesn't somehow make it a benefit to anyone since everyone gets rewarded less.

It would be like someone driving 20mph on the highway. Sure, if there is no posted minimum speed then it is legal and allowed, but it doesn't make it a benefit to anyone if it could be avoided. And even if you have something strapped to your car that requires you going slow, you could choose to go to the right lane and put your hazard lights on so that you do not make others suffer for no reason. Playing as an antag is no different in the game's current state and that is why the community has such a problem with it. It is you purposely slowing down the progress of everyone else in the game, and even if it is allowed it could also be entirely avoided. You simply choose to obstruct others.

Each player can potentially complete any of the 4 campaigns in any order. 2 of my friends started on the 5th Council's campaign.

Meh, it was a mentor match, the antag shouldn't be in it anyway.

They could change the reward system couldn't they? Wpuldnt it be easier to just change how much gold and faction points we get at the end?

Now I'm no white knight I just legit like the mechanic. It adds spice to the game. The reason I don't see a need for a toggle is becasue it's not like an antagonist shows up on every mission you have good day and you have bad ones. You can play a whole day and only get 3 Antags missions and then some days you get like 10. The PVEVP model has something for everyone. You got on missions you fight against the enemy and every so often you get a mission with an Antag. It's not a horrible experience. You are just upset becasue you lost or maybe you won but didn't get that blueprint you wanted. You're frustrated I get it. But are you honestly saying you wouldn't get bored of this game if all you did was play the same missions over and over, always winning. I know I would. I feel if they changed the Antag mechanic it would be a different game from what they originally set out to make. And don't think Antags have all the fun. We get frustrated too. The imbalance goes both ways

When did I ever say I was upset? Don't direct your emotions or justifications on me. The simple fact is that not having antags in mentor matches is a win-win scenario as it makes them desirable and benefits new players. Additionally, giving better rewards in antag matches makes them a benefit instead of a statistical loss that they are now, even when you win.

There is no crying over loses involved with these facts. The antag system is poorly implemented in its current form and needs to be improved and my goal is to suggest ways to make not only the antag system better, but the entire game.

I've noticed a change as well and it's not making the game more fun to play. We played Destroyer of Worlds and made it to the final boss phase only to have the AI spawn a ridiculous number of elites. When we eventually lost, my reward was a successful blueprint! Oh wait, it was a duplicate so nothing for me. Yeah, I'm taking a break from Spacelords probably until after I get bored of Fallout 76. Best of luck MSE.