Author Topic: Tips on how to deal with Hans antagonists?  (Read 2944 times)

Urgehal

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Tips on how to deal with Hans antagonists?
on: December 10, 2018, 04:35:11 AM
Or raiders too I guess, but I don't personally play antag.

But yeah, I can deal with every other character fine, but Hans is the only one that causes me major headaches. So much so, that I actually play like a try hard against lower level Hans players SMH...

I know it's characters/weapon dependent, but any general tips/strategies on how to deal with him?

LordDraco3

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Re: Tips on how to deal with Hans antagonists?
Reply #1 on: December 10, 2018, 11:56:48 AM
do not be below his elevation, make him run out of jetpack and try not to die, and shoot/CQC. Jetpack cannot be activated to escape cqc the way Ginebra can run off.

XjabberwockieX

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Re: Tips on how to deal with Hans antagonists?
Reply #2 on: December 10, 2018, 07:12:36 PM
Or raiders too I guess, but I don't personally play antag.

But yeah, I can deal with every other character fine, but Hans is the only one that causes me major headaches. So much so, that I actually play like a try hard against lower level Hans players SMH...

I know it's characters/weapon dependent, but any general tips/strategies on how to deal with him?

Hans antagonists? Oh u mean Lord Draco playing Weapon from the Past? You get comfortable with the idea of not winning and hope its over quickly. There isn't an opportunity to shoot a grapple because he has already shot your feet and put you in crit, and there is no such thing as out of fuel because he never comes out of the air... ::) Credit where credit is due though, while it may be a similarly aggravating and repetitive strategy utilized by the R&R Alicia antags of old (Jump,spam pain, crit, grapple, repeat) if it gets the job done, why do anything different? 
« Last Edit: December 10, 2018, 07:23:55 PM by XjabberwockieX »

Level9Drow

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Re: Tips on how to deal with Hans antagonists?
Reply #3 on: December 11, 2018, 01:04:07 AM
Draco you beast, what Frankenstein monster have you created?

Lehi

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Re: Tips on how to deal with Hans antagonists?
Reply #4 on: December 11, 2018, 01:16:34 AM
You definitely need a stealthy sniper to watch out Hans. Or you are the sniper.
Hans and Alicia are not easy to deal with because of their high mobility. If you cannot aim them, Shae comes in handy.
However, they are not easy to deal with.
I personally think it is not fair that they are immune to push while in the air.

PohtHehd

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Re: Tips on how to deal with Hans antagonists?
Reply #5 on: December 11, 2018, 01:48:29 AM
Or raiders too I guess, but I don't personally play antag.

But yeah, I can deal with every other character fine, but Hans is the only one that causes me major headaches. So much so, that I actually play like a try hard against lower level Hans players SMH...

I know it's characters/weapon dependent, but any general tips/strategies on how to deal with him?

Hans is very dependent on his weapon. All of his DPS comes from a very short amount of ammunition. He is one Raider that you'll want to utilize short-range tactics and cover the most.

As a Hades he is not going to be someone you want to start a CQC with if you can avoid it but getting in close with powerful short-range guns can be very effective against Hans. He will probably have no other choice but to fly away.

Never underestimate a flying Hans. If he is not under fire and he is flying then he is scouting the area. If you take cover then you can almost be assured that he will fly around/over to get a good shot at you. You might mistake this as the time to assault him, do not do this. Instead, start your maneuvers; re-position yourself and make sure he wastes his fuel.

Hans is only really devastating at mid-range. Wait until after he fires to start any sort of assault, he will have to reload or make do with a very short magazine, that is your chance.

Like HIVE you do not want to run up to a wounded Hans unless you know they have expended their ammunition. They will devastate your arrogance and flip the tables on you very quickly.

If you can survive a few exchanges of gunfire between cover then the Hans will have no choice but to start a CQC or find a better angle as their ammunition is limited. Again, never underestimate a flying Hans.

Outside of his gun he has little to offer a fight, though. So, utilize cover and force the flight. This will give you an advantage when they run out of fuel.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2018, 02:24:36 AM by PohtHehd »

LordDraco3

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Re: Tips on how to deal with Hans antagonists?
Reply #6 on: December 11, 2018, 03:17:17 AM
It really just depends on their cards. My build relies heavily on fast takedowns that result in melee finishers. I get fuel and damage from them. I only get about 2 barrages of shots out before I fall, so I try my best to make those few seconds count. Still hard to handle multiple raiders at once, if they are close together but not close enough to shoot at once.

But some players use the cards that refuel the jetpack per shooting kill, or per shot that hits, or slower fuel burn at low speeds in which case they will just hover around shooting until you die. Those tactics work better for raider than antag though, due to a more target rich environment, and the 20 second antag respawn you can stand to wait for a normal refuel timer if you do happen to use a lot in the fight.

Level9Drow

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Re: Tips on how to deal with Hans antagonists?
Reply #7 on: December 11, 2018, 06:09:30 PM
@Urgehal
If it's a serious issue for you a very diplomatically friendly option (to all players, and within the rules so far) would be to lower your MMR to very low, we're talking 10% to 20%. At this MMR you rarely get antagonists and when you do they don't have the AI advantage because you are likely to have a lower MMR and all the most skilled and highest level antags are at WAY higher MMRs, so even if you get one you can handle them fairly easily.

HOWEVER, to get a low MMR there are two legal and friendly ways to do so. the BEST way is to make a 4 man suicide group where you and 3 other players agree to spam missions and surrender over and over again until you get the desired MMR you want. This is the quickest way. The other way is far more slower and grueling, but still legal and friendly (VERY friendly in fact). You basically play as peaceful antag and let raiders win over and over. They get a lot our of it, it makes them happy with rewards and unstresses lower level players and you get a lower MMR as a reward. But again, it takes forever.

This is all I got for you if you have an issue with antagonists. It is a "soft" PvP switch.

ArnoldCat

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Re: Tips on how to deal with Hans antagonists?
Reply #8 on: December 11, 2018, 07:58:03 PM

HOWEVER, to get a low MMR there are two legal and friendly ways to do so. the BEST way is to make a 4 man suicide group where you and 3 other players agree to spam missions and surrender over and over again until you get the desired MMR you want. This is the quickest way. The other way is far more slower and grueling, but still legal and friendly (VERY friendly in fact). You basically play as peaceful antag and let raiders win over and over. They get a lot our of it, it makes them happy with rewards and unstresses lower level players and you get a lower MMR as a reward. But again, it takes forever.

This is all I got for you if you have an issue with antagonists. It is a "soft" PvP switch.

Oh my god this thread...


PLAYING ANTAGONIST IS NOT "RUINING THE GAME EXPERIENCE FOR OTHER PLAYERS"

ANTAGONIST IS AN INTENDED PART OF PLAYING THE GAME.

TEAMMATES THROWING MATCHES IS NOT PART OF NORMAL GAMEPLAY.


Whitebleidd
Hiero_Glyph
Tekato (didn't you quit?)
Level9Drow

You are some of the worst, most toxic players in this entire community.
You infect this forum and are legitimately defending ruining other player's games and comparing that to the same thing as having antagonists in the game, which are 100% a fact of life for a 4v1 PvEvP.

Through inspecting the game files, MSE has already coded perma-ban messages into the game. I will list them for you since you guys can't get it through your thick skulls that 1-3 players wasting lives and intentionally killing their own team IS NOT THE SAME as (or even in the ballpark of) an antagonist existing in the game.

Quote
L_HUD#Message#Ban#PermanentBanSuicide    Because of your repeated suicides in multiplayer matches, ignoring our warnings, we are forced to suspend your user account permanently.

L_HUD#Message#Ban#PermanentBanAbandon    Because you repeatedly quit in-progress multiplayer matches, ignoring our warnings, we are forced to suspend your user account permanently.

L_HUD#Message#Ban#PermanentBanBadBehaviour    Because of your repeated misbehavior in multiplayer matches, ignoring our warnings, we are forced to suspend your user account permanently.

L_HUD#Message#Ban#PermanentBanBot    We have confirmed the use of external software from your account with the intention of modifying certain game parameters. We are thus forced to suspend your user account permanently.

L_HUD#Message#Ban#PermanentBanCheat    You have modified the normal operation of the game, affecting the experience of the rest of the players and forcing us to suspend your user account permanently.

Antagonist mode always has been a main part of this 4v1 PvEvP game. Your constant, daily, wining, and putting down of antagonist players, literally equating them to the same as animal abusers and assuming anyone who partakes in such a mode is some kind of twisted individual, just make YOU look bad. I know for a fact I'm not the only one sick of this crap. It's time to stop.

Supposedly, you are not allowed to suicide, even if the team agree to do it to lower the mmr...

If you do it you will get banned...

And i doubt the code can recognice if you all agree to doit in one team affecting noone or is some random player rage quitting from a match.

So we are all fucked...  ;D ;D ;D ;D

Welcome to Raiders of th... uhm i mean... Spacelords, the game where you have no way to evade the antagonist, because is a "core" part of the game.



PohtHehd

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Re: Tips on how to deal with Hans antagonists?
Reply #9 on: December 11, 2018, 08:20:39 PM
Drow, I think he wants to actually fight and win against the Hans Antagonists. Not simply evade Antagonists altogether.

Arnold, you're right; suiciding in a match in order to lose can get you banned. However, what Drow is suggesting is a 4-man surrender squad which is just fine with MSE in the same way that friendly Antagonizing is considered an unbannable offense.

They have done a good deal of re-structuring to the rewards so lowering your MMR in order to evade the difficulty of the game is no longer lucrative. Before if you had 0 MMR you got the same rewards as someone with 50 MMR but now you will get very very low rewards without being in the 30-40 MMR range.

Anyway, let us not attend to matters such as these in this thread when there are many many others that can be used.

I'd personally like to know if Urgehal has had the opportunity to take on a Hans Antagonist since starting this thread.

Lehi

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Re: Tips on how to deal with Hans antagonists?
Reply #10 on: December 11, 2018, 09:35:40 PM
I'd personally like to know if Urgehal has had the opportunity to take on a Hans Antagonist since starting this thread.

I am waiting for a good news, too. I also can go in and give him an opportunity.

Level9Drow

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Re: Tips on how to deal with Hans antagonists?
Reply #11 on: December 11, 2018, 10:15:53 PM
I'm going to defend Draco on this, that was in October and was in response to us being very exhausted and angry at a time when antagonist were very prevalent. I think a lot has changed in the game since then and also as players. So bringing that post up I feel is a bit out of context for this thread.

I will add that since PvP is not optional players like me have to find other ways to get around this by utilizing what's allowed in the game. Lowering MMR is the only way to do this while not affecting the game-play of antagonists or other raiders in a negative way, or at least in no worse a way than what already exist (as in the case of an antagonists going against lower MMR raiders with one high level raider, you live by the sword you die by the sword, sorry).

I'm at 21% currently and it has taken a long time as a peaceful antag. I finally accepted Poht's suggestion and will go all the way down to at least see what it has to offer and how many antags you get, and if there are any hidden difficulty spikes down there. I haven't been able to find a surrender group so this is what I must do. I EARNED this low MMR. I took a VAST amount of time to get there and look forward to the relaxing games with little to no antags I may experience. So I don't expect what I'm doing is bad, morally wrong or against the rules. I'll see the rewards down there and what they're like. If they're not too bad, as in equivalent to losing, it will be worth the price for the peace I will get and the relief from the headache. And when accounting for higher MMR's with the amount of times you lose due to overpowered AI, antags causing you to lose, mentor matches and baby Harecs ruining the game I think it will equal out. We'll see.

ArnoldCat

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Re: Tips on how to deal with Hans antagonists?
Reply #12 on: December 11, 2018, 10:48:25 PM
@Level9Drow
Out of context, maybe.
My objective was to expose the code that shows:

"L_HUD#Message#Ban#PermanentBanSuicide    Because of your repeated suicides in multiplayer matches, ignoring our warnings, we are forced to suspend your user account permanently."

That automatically nullifies the option to suicide and dont get banned.

Unless the code recognise you are in a squad and somehow knows you all agree to suicide repeatelly on multiple matches.

@PohtHehd
I didnt know MSE was ok with squads doing massive suicides to lower the MMR.

Where did they say that? Maybe on Discord because i never use it (mostly because i dont understand what everyone is speaking, i dont speak english).

In that case, who wanna commit suicide with me?  ;D ;D ;D



There goes the squad!!

« Last Edit: December 11, 2018, 11:00:50 PM by ArnoldCat »

Level9Drow

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Re: Tips on how to deal with Hans antagonists?
Reply #13 on: December 11, 2018, 11:01:44 PM
I'm probably to blame if I used the term suicide group, it's just a hyperbolic term I guess. What I REALLY mean is a surrender squad, a group of 4 people who all agree to surrender over and over again. Which should be fine as the surrender option is a function within the game mechanics that is allowed and if the majority agrees it is a success.now it could be considered a dick move to do this with 3 players while the 4th is not of your party. but a 4 man squad should be ok. no one is being taken advantage of and there is no negative effect on another player.

ArnoldCat

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Re: Tips on how to deal with Hans antagonists?
Reply #14 on: December 11, 2018, 11:12:03 PM
I'm probably to blame if I used the term suicide group, it's just a hyperbolic term I guess. What I REALLY mean is a surrender squad, a group of 4 people who all agree to surrender over and over again. Which should be fine as the surrender option is a function within the game mechanics that is allowed and if the majority agrees it is a success.now it could be considered a dick move to do this with 3 players while the 4th is not of your party. but a 4 man squad should be ok. no one is being taken advantage of and there is no negative effect on another player.

Ok, i guess i gonna have to control my suicidal impulses.