Author Topic: Plot and Character Design  (Read 11187 times)

tplarkin7

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Plot and Character Design
on: November 26, 2018, 05:37:43 AM
Spacelords has many inspired elements that are well executed, but these elements fail to merge due to a fundamental error (regarding plot and characters). I recommend the book, The Seven Basic Plots, by Christopher Booker (just the first 400 pages, I don't recommend reading past that). Basically, there is an "archetypal" plot that must be followed (or you will have a boring story). He also explains the fundamental relationship between men and women, and the powerful role of the feminine and masculine within storytelling.
Fundamental problem #1 with Spacelords is that the women are too masculine.
Fundamental problem #2 is the lack of "good and evil". This means that nothing is pure, and that there's no reason to fight. Raiders are committing an evil act by "raiding". "Antagonists" do the same thing. This lack of good and evil is evident throughout the plot and design of the fictional world of Spacelords.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2018, 05:39:38 AM by tplarkin7 »

LordDraco3

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Re: Plot and Character Design
Reply #1 on: November 26, 2018, 10:33:46 AM
Uhhhhhhhhhh....... No. I would rather this thread just die in obscurity without replies (not likely to happen) but I feel it also needs to be condemned. Strongly.

L E T H A L ☆ C E N T A U R I

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Re: Plot and Character Design
Reply #2 on: November 26, 2018, 04:51:17 PM
What the fuck is this.

Lancer

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Re: Plot and Character Design
Reply #3 on: November 26, 2018, 04:56:28 PM
Spacelords has many inspired elements that are well executed, but these elements fail to merge due to a fundamental error (regarding plot and characters). I recommend the book, The Seven Basic Plots, by Christopher Booker (just the first 400 pages, I don't recommend reading past that). Basically, there is an "archetypal" plot that must be followed (or you will have a boring story). He also explains the fundamental relationship between men and women, and the powerful role of the feminine and masculine within storytelling.
Fundamental problem #1 with Spacelords is that the women are too masculine.
Fundamental problem #2 is the lack of "good and evil". This means that nothing is pure, and that there's no reason to fight. Raiders are committing an evil act by "raiding". "Antagonists" do the same thing. This lack of good and evil is evident throughout the plot and design of the fictional world of Spacelords.
1 who cares if the girls can kick your ass? And 2 not all  "plots" need a defined good and evil, oh and read the lore in the universe section, you might find your plot

Level9Drow

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Re: Plot and Character Design
Reply #4 on: November 26, 2018, 05:43:10 PM
Spacelords has many inspired elements that are well executed, but these elements fail to merge due to a fundamental error (regarding plot and characters). I recommend the book, The Seven Basic Plots, by Christopher Booker (just the first 400 pages, I don't recommend reading past that). Basically, there is an "archetypal" plot that must be followed (or you will have a boring story). He also explains the fundamental relationship between men and women, and the powerful role of the feminine and masculine within storytelling.
Fundamental problem #1 with Spacelords is that the women are too masculine.
Fundamental problem #2 is the lack of "good and evil". This means that nothing is pure, and that there's no reason to fight. Raiders are committing an evil act by "raiding". "Antagonists" do the same thing. This lack of good and evil is evident throughout the plot and design of the fictional world of Spacelords.

This isn't a novel, wrong medium. This isn't a heavy story based game, like the Last of Us. This is an action hero shooter/brawler. Not all books that are good are War and Peace or The Grapes of Wrath. Also, this is a videogame, not a philosophy class or political statement. Remove your expectation.

If there is a female character you find too masculine then don't play her. If there is a female character that feels more feminine, then play her. ALL of the female characters are attractive in their own unique ways and very different from each other. I'm sorry not all of them are Barbie clones that all act like Betty Crocker. This is a war torn world and humans are given superhuman powers through Aleph. I find them more attractive than Betty Crocker and this is a relief. Betty Crocker is boring. but Hans might like her a lot.

If you don't like the way the women are depicted or the story line presented I honestly suggest you create your own game with the specifications that you like.

Tekato

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Re: Plot and Character Design
Reply #5 on: November 26, 2018, 07:16:43 PM
Damn I didn't think it could get worst than my shit posts, but here we are! The pinnacle of stupidity.

Level9Drow

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Re: Plot and Character Design
Reply #6 on: November 26, 2018, 07:38:17 PM
Damn I didn't think it could get worst than my shit posts, but here we are! The pinnacle of stupidity.

Some people think this is Overwatch, I guess. This game isn't PC, but it also isn't traditional or "wholesome". And it shouldn't be.

B30

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Re: Plot and Character Design
Reply #7 on: November 26, 2018, 09:44:41 PM
Sorry, but NO! Who says it always has to be this way? If everyone in the industry would exactly follow this formula (sadly it happens often enough anyway) from now on, everything would be pretty boring, right?

This is the hero, he needs to look like this, this is the evil villain he needs to act like that, and that is the beautiful princess … wait, ughh!

No offense, but think again.

L E T H A L ☆ C E N T A U R I

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Re: Plot and Character Design
Reply #8 on: November 26, 2018, 10:11:05 PM
We need more big booty, big titty bitches in the game.

khadecy

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Re: Plot and Character Design
Reply #9 on: November 27, 2018, 12:54:54 AM
We need more big booty, big titty bitches in the game.


HELL YEAH

tplarkin7

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Re: Plot and Character Design
Reply #10 on: November 27, 2018, 05:39:58 AM
I'm only trying to help. I've written a novel, a theological book, and a 14-hour video game script. I have real experience. Also, the only reason I'm here is that the game is almost great. It does many things at the highest quality that very few developers achieve. Since the developer continues to believe in seeing this game succeed (with new characters like Stefanie Joosten), I'm making suggestions.

Some simple things I would do:
1) The female characters are pretty hot, but they really need to be softened up. Some of them are currently animated in a way that makes them look too heavy (too much like a man). They also have way too much muscle and their shoulders are too big.
2) Attitude of female characters. Very few of them exhibit humility. There is nothing more attractive than a woman who is humble. A steadfast rule for attractive characters: men = authority, women = humility.
3) Get something righteous and good in the game. It currently is too dark and negative because amorality is the norm. Any new content should drive toward "renewal". History should not be ignored, as bad writing always ignores history (or tries to re-write history). We know what true morals are in our real world, and these must be carried through in any plot. (Think of the crusades, or WWI, or WWII, etc. What did they fight for, and who won?)

Urgehal

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Re: Plot and Character Design
Reply #11 on: November 27, 2018, 07:00:08 AM
Sorry TC, you may not like it, but the female cast in this game is what peak performance looks like. It's honestly refreshing to see female characters in a video game that aren't freakin stick figures, so no thanks...

And while the game does have quite the lore too it, story wise I don't think they're trying to make anything that's deep. Just a crazy/crude/fun journey.

But I agree with you on the good/righteous angle somewhat, since only Harec & Konstantin are the only characters with those traits...but since every character is so badass and likeable, I ain't too torn up about that. This is probably the only game I actually like all the characters (that goes for non playable characters too). Glad you're on the Riaders train, but don't be a party pooper mate, and enjoy the ride. Beers on Lycus.




PohtHehd

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Re: Plot and Character Design
Reply #12 on: November 27, 2018, 07:27:26 AM
Spacelords has many inspired elements that are well executed, but these elements fail to merge due to a fundamental error (regarding plot and characters). I recommend the book, The Seven Basic Plots, by Christopher Booker (just the first 400 pages, I don't recommend reading past that). Basically, there is an "archetypal" plot that must be followed (or you will have a boring story). He also explains the fundamental relationship between men and women, and the powerful role of the feminine and masculine within storytelling.
Fundamental problem #1 with Spacelords is that the women are too masculine.
Fundamental problem #2 is the lack of "good and evil". This means that nothing is pure, and that there's no reason to fight. Raiders are committing an evil act by "raiding". "Antagonists" do the same thing. This lack of good and evil is evident throughout the plot and design of the fictional world of Spacelords.
Your opinions do not count as fundamental problems. If I wanted to I could form an opinion about anything and then disparage it that way.

The female characters run the gamut of very feminine to very masculine just like the male characters. Your perception of feminine and masculine is incorrect. Harec shows great compassion, that is a very feminine thing. Ayana shows great greed, that is a very masculine thing.

There is an incredible battle between good and evil taking place within the layers of the lore. You do not have to look very long to find out Uras-Beherit has been a persistent and very evil enemy.

They subtly shade the characters with motivations and actions that can be considered good or evil, this is called good writing. We cannot be sure that stopping Krausher is good in the overall scheme of the game. He has priorities and goals which do not seem evil from the Hades perspective and we find out later that Shamash is the Legacy and so without Krausher and Hades' Hecatoncheir there really is nothing to use against him. But the Raiders do not know that and Krausher is an immediate threat to their plans. It is ambiguous and that is why it is so good.

Uras-Beherit is constantly represented by the Antagonist. If the Uras-Beherit is anything then it is suffering. The Antagonist is its representative in that regard. Everything the Antagonist does is evil. They cannot even choose their own actions and instead are forced to follow Raiders throughout the mission, even if they wanted to help they cannot directly due so because of their connection to Uras-Beherit. The Uras-Beherit is the main bad guy and it is definitely evil.

The Raider's actions do not lead to more suffering, they stop a myriad of plots that would lead to far greater suffering, and so they should not be considered evil. Many of the Raiders are honorable and good people. Doldren even has his own set of principles and codes which he follows. His belief in a beautiful death and his respect for Shae and Harec show that.

This is all in the Universe section of the game, I suggest you check it out.

I'm only trying to help. I've written a novel, a theological book, and a 14-hour video game script. I have real experience. Also, the only reason I'm here is that the game is almost great. It does many things at the highest quality that very few developers achieve. Since the developer continues to believe in seeing this game succeed (with new characters like Stefanie Joosten), I'm making suggestions.

Some simple things I would do:
1) The female characters are pretty hot, but they really need to be softened up. Some of them are currently animated in a way that makes them look too heavy (too much like a man). They also have way too much muscle and their shoulders are too big.
2) Attitude of female characters. Very few of them exhibit humility. There is nothing more attractive than a woman who is humble. A steadfast rule for attractive characters: men = authority, women = humility.
3) Get something righteous and good in the game. It currently is too dark and negative because amorality is the norm. Any new content should drive toward "renewal". History should not be ignored, as bad writing always ignores history (or tries to re-write history). We know what true morals are in our real world, and these must be carried through in any plot. (Think of the crusades, or WWI, or WWII, etc. What did they fight for, and who won?)

Well, I have written several novels. It doesn't mean shit. Also, if you have written a book on theology then the ecclesiastical nature of the game should come off as very interesting to you. Because you didn't mention anything about that I will have to assume you have not read the Universe section, the skins lore, the weapons lore, the website's lore, the mission lore or the comic's lore.

All three of your last points scream of someone who is incredibly traditional in their beliefs of the world. I find them to be..shallow and kind of offensive. I think you should research the material you are critiquing before making such bold accusations.

The story is incredibly deep and spans many thousands of years with many many different characters and situations. It is to MSE's credit that such an involved plotline is not necessary for the casual fan to enjoy the mission-only lore.

One last thing; Stefanie Joosten is not the name of the new character. It is Sooma. Ms. Joosten is simply letting them use her name and voice for the character to create media hype. It is very weird that you consider the character and the voice actress to be the same. You do not consider Nikki Garcia to be HIVE, do you?
« Last Edit: November 27, 2018, 07:54:00 AM by PohtHehd »

LordDraco3

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Re: Plot and Character Design
Reply #13 on: November 27, 2018, 10:41:11 AM
^Good post from Poh.

And yikes, this is the exact response I predicted would happen.

1) The female characters are pretty hot, but they really need to be softened up. Some of them are currently animated in a way that makes them look too heavy (too much like a man). They also have way too much muscle and their shoulders are too big.
2) Attitude of female characters. Very few of them exhibit humility. There is nothing more attractive than a woman who is humble. A steadfast rule for attractive characters: men = authority, women = humility.
3) Get something righteous and good in the game. It currently is too dark and negative because amorality is the norm. Any new content should drive toward "renewal". History should not be ignored, as bad writing always ignores history (or tries to re-write history). We know what true morals are in our real world, and these must be carried through in any plot. (Think of the crusades, or WWI, or WWII, etc. What did they fight for, and who won?)

These are some extremely problematic statements directed towards women.

1) not all women are built or act the same. Sorry they fall outside of your cookie-cutter idea of what women have to be. They are fighters dealing with immense conflict on a war-torn alien planet. Lots of running, jumping, shooting, beating the shit out of things. It's nice to see some muscles for once. Play Mikah if you can't stand to see the sight of a woman that has muscles (not that there's anything wrong with Mikah, we all know SHE'S DA BEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEST). All of the characters, both male and female, are larger-than-life, like comic book characters (hell some of them even have comic books!). I mean Loaht has a huge belly but is ripped as hell, which isn't even how bodies work in real life. This is an artistic style choice.

Alicia is one of the main reasons I thought the game looked interesting, when I first saw the cinematic trailer in the playstation store. Never enough tough badass mohawked girls. It's pretty clear she's inspired by Tank Girl.

2) This is.... what? Women have to be timid little creatures for men to excercise authority over, so says you? This backwards philosophy isn't even worth debating.

3) Poh covered this one pretty extensively already.
You seem really misinformed as to the motivations of each character, the factions as a whole, as well as the main goal of the Raiders (basically Harec's and the Locals' goal, seeing as he's the leader). Lycus or whoever you have in mind as "amoral" might be a jerk but he's supporting the goals of Harec, which isn't even to really kill humans, he just wants to send them back to Earth so they leave him and his people alone.

You should probably read up the universe section, check out the comics on this very website, and learn about the plot and characters if that's where your interest lies.

pululon

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Re: Plot and Character Design
Reply #14 on: November 27, 2018, 02:20:29 PM
Who doesn't love Alicia's abs? Her design is one of the most uniques that I saw in a very long time, badass, sexy, strong, angry, everything... I started in this game just for her XD