Author Topic: In Shock testing videos: Patch 11.0  (Read 5340 times)

LordDraco3

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In Shock testing videos: Patch 11.0
on: October 03, 2018, 05:33:51 AM
So the true benchmark on if a mission is possible I would assume is Insane difficulty. AI has less health, but you have no teammates to help you out, nothing to distract the enemies, everything exists to murder YOU, and their damage is similar to high MMR.

Long time ago I did Very Hard mode, this was before the forge existed, back when Very Hard was truly difficult. I concluded Konstantin was the best tool for the job, being tanky and high damage. Here's that video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVFIjJsyBAI

you can see that flipping the levers is not too difficult buy keeping Shae between you and Kuzmann. This was the best way to flip switches even in a team, since multiple people going for them could get shot and everyone dies due to arcs.

Important note: Dying during levers means you have to rush to them upon respawn, and that basically guaranteed Kuzmann will be shooting you before you even get to the lever spot.

NOW, Those levers take time..... I ran with 3 characters, and these are my findings.

1. Konstantin. He was the best choice before, but now he is simply too slow. He takes an assload of damage when moving from switch to switch because the delay in flipping them. I conclude this would be an issue on all 5th council, and simply isn't going to be possible with any of them.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeUwydKbVWw

2. Mikah. SHE DID IT, MIKAH'S THE BEEEEEEEEEEEEEST
Mikah is a recommended character for the mission. She has high health, and most importantly, the decoy. The decoy is the ONLY reason she was able to win this, it was able to keep Kuzmann's attention long enough to start levers. However, not long enough to get all 3, but upon respawn you can still juke him and use the decoy to get his attention and get the final lever. I did not use Schneider, but I suspect he's the only other character that stands as chance because his drone serves the same purpose as decoy, but can be placed from farther away. And deals a lot more damage.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDJUH_gDAR8
(oh and I use Granny in case you are someone who is curious about the weapon.)

3. Hans. I wanted to try another" recommended character" and Hans has high HP and high mobility, as well as being the cheapest character so everyone has him. Since speed was the deciding factor on Konstantin failing, maybe Hans has what it takes. Nope. You can get 2 levers, but Kuzmann will catch up, and fry Hans. Hans has no way to divert Kuzmann, and the timer is so short you don't have room for error or leading him around. Also it seemed like a lot more enemies spawned on me this time?? ALSO a sniper spawned off the map on part 1??? Speed was just not as good as diverting the walking electric chair's attention, and 140 health isn't enough to survive the shots for even 2 seconds.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJJKi-6USVM

CONCLUSION: ..... the timed levers are terrible. I couldn't imagine doing this with a random team that will likely shock each other as they try to grab the levers. I can't imagine any scenario where a team could do this with an antagonist present. Please MSE take this into consideration, as the mission went from the fastest and easiest, to nearly impossible, based on my observations with multiple characters and several others posting on this forum.

Tekato

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Re: In Shock testing videos: Patch 11.0
Reply #1 on: October 03, 2018, 06:08:37 AM
Just to add to the list I was able to do insane with lycus, he's able to kill kuzzman before the timer runs out and he can also block the lightning with his shield.

LordDraco3

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Re: In Shock testing videos: Patch 11.0
Reply #2 on: October 03, 2018, 06:19:20 AM
Good point! I didn't think about using him because, well, his range problem vs. the beholder. Did you use Pepper Pot? Shit Happens? Killing him outright is nice, but that's not possible with multiplayer health, the levers will need to be pulled at least once. Shield sounds like a good idea though, for sure.

I also feel it should be mentioned: Iune and Harec are "recommended" for this mission. I could see that before, because they both have powerful long range and can stay far away while shooting. But now I cannot believe they would survive the levers, unless someone wants to do it and post video. 2 tics of damage will wound a local, I believe.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2018, 06:21:54 AM by LordDraco3 »

Tekato

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Re: In Shock testing videos: Patch 11.0
Reply #3 on: October 03, 2018, 06:26:00 AM
Good point! I didn't think about using him because, well, his range problem vs. the beholder. Did you use Pepper Pot? Shit Happens? Killing him outright is nice, but that's not possible with multiplayer health, the levers will need to be pulled at least once. Shield sounds like a good idea though, for sure.

I also feel it should be mentioned: Iune and Harec are "recommended" for this mission. I could see that before, because they both have powerful long range and can stay far away while shooting. But now I cannot believe they would survive the levers, unless someone wants to do it and post video. 2 tics of damage will wound a local, I believe.
Yeah i was using the pepper pot for the range and damage. Also i did it again to see if I could press the switches and I didn't have any issues because of the shield but i think mikah with the barrier could do an even better job.

Locals sound like a nightmare lol.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2018, 06:30:04 AM by Tekato »

LordDraco3

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Re: In Shock testing videos: Patch 11.0
Reply #4 on: October 03, 2018, 06:46:23 AM
Yes I didn't consider Barrier because I haven't crafted it yet, but it definitely sounds like a weapon that always needs to be brought to this mission now just to be on the safe side.... it's a shame that something is practically forced to become meta because the game difficulty spikes. Lycus is a fine workaround but I'm imagining a scenario where there are arcs coming from multiple directions due to allies that are zapped and/or Kuzmann shooting him at the same time and/or multiple ads on the map. Barrier totally sounds safest.

But Locals and council are just a no-go. The only Wardog I imagine doing it is Hive with her overheal, and bring Debilitating Pheramones to lower his damage.

Solo snipers did not spawn enough to get an aleph boost, haven't played in a team yet to see if they would make any positive difference in player power by getting a boost.

MSE_Ojuel

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Re: In Shock testing videos: Patch 11.0
Reply #5 on: October 03, 2018, 12:09:55 PM
Hey guys, how are you doing! :)

I'm one of the devs in charge of the logic & structure for the missions of the game, and watching the videos and reading your feedback on this issue has been extremely useful and interesting to me. Thank you so much for being so active when it comes to giving feedback on the new stuff put into the game!  :D

As you all pointed out, there is indeed some extra tweaking needed for the lever-pressing moment during Kuzzman's combat. We changed the amount of time required to press the levers in order to deincentivate players doing suicidal maneuvers. The new timing is meant to incentivate taking a slower & safer approach in order to succeed. But, because of Shae's survival time limit being so tight, I'm afraid the whole thing may have become a bit excruciating.

We'll be fixing this issue as soon as possible!  :)

B30

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Re: In Shock testing videos: Patch 11.0
Reply #6 on: October 03, 2018, 12:29:43 PM
… We changed the amount of time required to press the levers in order to deincentivate players doing suicidal maneuvers. The new timing is meant to incentivate taking a slower & safer approach in order to succeed. …

What? Why should a slower lever switch be safer than a quick one (as it was before the patch), when Kuzmann, snipers and an antag are lurking around nearby???

MSE_Ojuel

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Re: In Shock testing videos: Patch 11.0
Reply #7 on: October 03, 2018, 01:41:30 PM
… We changed the amount of time required to press the levers in order to deincentivate players doing suicidal maneuvers. The new timing is meant to incentivate taking a slower & safer approach in order to succeed. …

What? Why should a slower lever switch be safer than a quick one (as it was before the patch), when Kuzmann, snipers and an antag are lurking around nearby???

I answered you in the other thread: https://www.spacelordsthegame.com/community/index.php?topic=2763.15

 :)

Cryptek

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Re: In Shock testing videos: Patch 11.0
Reply #8 on: October 03, 2018, 03:07:22 PM
The switches are what have failed the mission for me the last 4 times I ran it, basically impossible if you didn't bring a character that can tank huge amounts of damage.

MSE_Ojuel

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Re: In Shock testing videos: Patch 11.0
Reply #9 on: October 03, 2018, 03:20:41 PM
The switches are what have failed the mission for me the last 4 times I ran it, basically impossible if you didn't bring a character that can tank huge amounts of damage.

I'm really sorry to hear that. :(

Let me quote myself from what I said in other thread:

"...whenever the new patch kicks in, there will be a vast amount of time to press the levers, letting the players do the task in a more calm way, thus not requiring a suicidal approach at all."
"Both time values (Shae's survival time & lever interaction time) are being changed in the next patch release. Also, both values will be tweaked differently depending on whether there's an Antagonist in the match or not."
"Antagonists are actually supposed to be able to cancel the Raiders's lever interaction if they are fast enough, but of course it's not supposed to be trivial thing either. "

Hiero_Glyph

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Re: In Shock testing videos: Patch 11.0
Reply #10 on: October 03, 2018, 05:57:27 PM
The switches are what have failed the mission for me the last 4 times I ran it, basically impossible if you didn't bring a character that can tank huge amounts of damage.

I'm really sorry to hear that. :(

Let me quote myself from what I said in other thread:

"...whenever the new patch kicks in, there will be a vast amount of time to press the levers, letting the players do the task in a more calm way, thus not requiring a suicidal approach at all."
"Both time values (Shae's survival time & lever interaction time) are being changed in the next patch release. Also, both values will be tweaked differently depending on whether there's an Antagonist in the match or not."
"Antagonists are actually supposed to be able to cancel the Raiders's lever interaction if they are fast enough, but of course it's not supposed to be trivial thing either. "


As long as you actually tested it in house and can do it successfully I'm fine with the change. You did actually test it successfully, right? Solo as well I assume? Of course you did!

Never underestimate the value of testing things in-game no matter what the data tells you. We love the game and want it to succeed but this issue could have been avoided. I look forward to the next patch.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2018, 06:02:26 PM by Hiero_Glyph »

LordDraco3

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Re: In Shock testing videos: Patch 11.0
Reply #11 on: October 03, 2018, 09:39:37 PM
The switches are what have failed the mission for me the last 4 times I ran it, basically impossible if you didn't bring a character that can tank huge amounts of damage.

I'm really sorry to hear that. :(

Let me quote myself from what I said in other thread:

"...whenever the new patch kicks in, there will be a vast amount of time to press the levers, letting the players do the task in a more calm way, thus not requiring a suicidal approach at all."
"Both time values (Shae's survival time & lever interaction time) are being changed in the next patch release. Also, both values will be tweaked differently depending on whether there's an Antagonist in the match or not."
"Antagonists are actually supposed to be able to cancel the Raiders's lever interaction if they are fast enough, but of course it's not supposed to be trivial thing either. "


I responded in discord, but again, thank you for the response and insight! The discussed adjustments you are mentioning sound great, and I understand the reasoning behind it.
Current length of pull time along with current short timer and high damage incoming make it very stressful and high chance of failure, but a slightly shorter pull (not instant) with longer timer sounds like a good compromise.