Author Topic: Hollow ones should not be able to sprint.  (Read 4105 times)

Power Penguin

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Hollow ones should not be able to sprint.
on: March 15, 2018, 05:28:38 AM
The title says it all. I get what you are going for, powerful but slow. But the way they are right now they can just sprint up to you and you really can't do much about it since they soak up damage like a big stupid robo-sponge.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2018, 05:33:47 AM by Power Penguin »

Quanrian

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Re: Hollow ones should not be able to sprint.
Reply #1 on: March 15, 2018, 05:35:04 AM
When facing 5th Council use a liberal amount of melee and really only use guns to wittle them or stumble them. For instance, any weapon that knocks enemies around are far more valuable against them since they're so weak to melee and putting them in a position where they can't defend is very useful. To clarify, characters such as Lycus and Konstantine who tend to stumble enemies often will be a great asset against 5th Council. However, if you're running an Alien just focus on singling out enemies and taking advantage of your very low stress to dash grab for instant kills. There are tons of ways to deal with them efficiently but hopefully this bits help you or others out somewhat.

Power Penguin

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Re: Hollow ones should not be able to sprint.
Reply #2 on: March 15, 2018, 05:37:57 AM
They are weak to melee yes but doesn't help when like three of them suddenly decide to charge you.

Quanrian

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Re: Hollow ones should not be able to sprint.
Reply #3 on: March 15, 2018, 05:47:59 AM
From a tactical standpoint that's bad for you regardless. Even if you're wiping them out quickly you're tying yourself and you'd altogether be better off having a teammate help you out for various reasons. First reason, you will get flanked by enemies not involved in that group so it will be good if you're not the only one drawing aggro in your immediate area. Second reason, you're easy pickings for an Antagonist since you're not going to get invincibility from CQCing regular NPCs. Thus, if you can't at least pair off once the difficulty picks up you're going to suffer from flanking and just unlucky counters. At least, with the two of you it's less likely you will both get into a downed state. To put it differently, think of it like a sports game in that you wouldn't want everyone attacking or defending you want a mix as well as adjusting with the flow of the mission. One thing Raiders does immensely is force you to adapt to daunting situations and it's part of what I love. Yes, it can also be very frustrating at times but very often it's because of a mistake not gameplay wise but in judgement such as taking on a group of three by yourself rather than dividing aggro.

Level9Drow

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Re: Hollow ones should not be able to sprint.
Reply #4 on: March 15, 2018, 07:19:27 AM
I think what he's trying to say, or at least what I've noticed from the Hollow Ones, is that they're 5th Council, they shouldn't be able to sprint or slide. If Konstantin, Kuzman and Ginebra cannot sprint or slide I don't understand why they can. Another example of how mooks are overpowered.

Power Penguin

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Re: Hollow ones should not be able to sprint.
Reply #5 on: March 15, 2018, 07:34:08 AM
I think what he's trying to say, or at least what I've noticed from the Hollow Ones, is that they're 5th Council, they shouldn't be able to sprint or slide. If Konstantin, Kuzman and Ginebra cannot sprint or slide I don't understand why they can. Another example of how mooks are overpowered.


Thank you Drow.

Quanrian

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Re: Hollow ones should not be able to sprint.
Reply #6 on: March 16, 2018, 05:30:39 AM
Yeah but they're completely different models! I consider those to be light models . I mean they're practically stick figures... The weight alone of the characters you mentions is quite robust in comparison. However, this doesn't mean I don't agree that each Faction could use a bit more diversity and hopefully we will get more variety within 5th Faction instead of simply flooding levels with mooks as you call them. As it stands, I prioritize the shotgunners but it took me too long to figure out I should be dodging as soon as they notice me and never EVER stand remotely near a cliff!

Level9Drow

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Re: Hollow ones should not be able to sprint.
Reply #7 on: March 16, 2018, 09:11:58 AM
Yeah but they're completely different models! I consider those to be light models . I mean they're practically stick figures... The weight alone of the characters you mentions is quite robust in comparison. However, this doesn't mean I don't agree that each Faction could use a bit more diversity and hopefully we will get more variety within 5th Faction instead of simply flooding levels with mooks as you call them. As it stands, I prioritize the shotgunners but it took me too long to figure out I should be dodging as soon as they notice me and never EVER stand remotely near a cliff!

That would be fine, IF the Hollow Ones didn't take half damage from gunfire. Part of the idea of being a heavy tank and being slow is, well, because you can take damage. If they're fast they shouldn't take half damage, like the slower models can, from gun fire. There has to be some advantage to being slow. Otherwise why are they slow?

If all factions share common traits then 5th council mooks share the least with their player counterparts. They can move fast AND take half damage from gunfire AND can slinde AND have magic stunning shot guns AND can chain stun you with kicks til your dead. Starting to believe playing a hollow one mook may be better than playing any other character.

What's good for the goose is good for the gander. Wardog mooks take full damage but can regenerate on the move. Hades Devision mooks have a lot of health but take full damage from gun fire. There are some special mooks, like the rocket launcher mooks for Wardog and Hades Devision who take half damage from gunfire.

In the end what this inconsistency causes is one to wonder what's so special about the heroes if mooks are better? Suspension of disbelief damaged a little, enthusiasm for playing the hero diminishes because the heroes are laim.

Master Cheif could solo any marine, covenant grunt jackal, and only had issues with special units like Elites and Hunters. Doom Guy could solo Imps, Zombies, Possessed Marines all day and only had issues, again, with special units like Hell Knights and Cacodemons. Kratos, Dante, Bayonetta, Master Chief, Link, Kain, Raziel, Marcus Phoenix, etc... these are all epic heroes from action games where there are mooks, intermediate, elite enemies and bosses. The reason we have fun playing them is because they're, to some degree, badass and above the curve, special in some way. They may take effort, but they're generally stronger than normal units. In raiders, this kind of doesn't feel like it's so. You get the feeling, especially from the awesome trailer, that this is what they were going for, but the heroes aren't really that much better than the mooks, not really. And in some cases, like 5th council, the mooks are better in many ways.

I would just suggest they take away sprint and slide from 5th council mooks, or give 5th council characters sprint and slide, at least in a card form.

I think in the end what the OP is feeling is the disappointment of playing a hero who is slow with ABSOLUTELY no advantage, and then seeing other units, that are supposed to be inferior models, actually operate superior to you. It sucks, especially when they kill you as a 5th council.

that's just my opinion though. I absolutely loath 5th council mooks. I think they're horrible, cheap, and overpowered, regardless of who you are playing as.

LordDraco3

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Re: Hollow ones should not be able to sprint.
Reply #8 on: March 16, 2018, 10:45:37 AM
Yeah I just noticed this today after playing Enemy Within for the 15th time. They can not only run, but run and shoot at the same time! I played Konstantin almost every time so it was a bit silly that they were outrunning me, I just shot them to death most of the time.

Also not only do they have armor and speed, but their weapons really do seem to do a ton of damage. When I don't play Council, they seem to kill faster with a rifle than any other faction, I often just die for 1 or 2 more bullets once I get wounded.

But yeah, point is that it seems really inconsistent since every faction's basic grunt is supposed to share the same faction traits. They obviously have an elite unit planned as seen on In Shock's poster, if it doesn't have any ability to move faster than the raider council, then I could understand the idea that the average unit is just lighter. Maybe the 4th Fifth Council raider will be able to move faster?