Mercurysteam's Hangout
BARRACKS => Suggestions => Topic started by: tplarkin7 on November 26, 2018, 05:37:43 AM
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Spacelords has many inspired elements that are well executed, but these elements fail to merge due to a fundamental error (regarding plot and characters). I recommend the book, The Seven Basic Plots, by Christopher Booker (just the first 400 pages, I don't recommend reading past that). Basically, there is an "archetypal" plot that must be followed (or you will have a boring story). He also explains the fundamental relationship between men and women, and the powerful role of the feminine and masculine within storytelling.
Fundamental problem #1 with Spacelords is that the women are too masculine.
Fundamental problem #2 is the lack of "good and evil". This means that nothing is pure, and that there's no reason to fight. Raiders are committing an evil act by "raiding". "Antagonists" do the same thing. This lack of good and evil is evident throughout the plot and design of the fictional world of Spacelords.
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Uhhhhhhhhhh....... No. I would rather this thread just die in obscurity without replies (not likely to happen) but I feel it also needs to be condemned. Strongly.
(https://media1.tenor.com/images/702ec1de557c44756c82cd627584d7f0/tenor.gif?itemid=4751625)
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What the fuck is this.
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Spacelords has many inspired elements that are well executed, but these elements fail to merge due to a fundamental error (regarding plot and characters). I recommend the book, The Seven Basic Plots, by Christopher Booker (just the first 400 pages, I don't recommend reading past that). Basically, there is an "archetypal" plot that must be followed (or you will have a boring story). He also explains the fundamental relationship between men and women, and the powerful role of the feminine and masculine within storytelling.
Fundamental problem #1 with Spacelords is that the women are too masculine.
Fundamental problem #2 is the lack of "good and evil". This means that nothing is pure, and that there's no reason to fight. Raiders are committing an evil act by "raiding". "Antagonists" do the same thing. This lack of good and evil is evident throughout the plot and design of the fictional world of Spacelords.
1 who cares if the girls can kick your ass? And 2 not all "plots" need a defined good and evil, oh and read the lore in the universe section, you might find your plot
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Spacelords has many inspired elements that are well executed, but these elements fail to merge due to a fundamental error (regarding plot and characters). I recommend the book, The Seven Basic Plots, by Christopher Booker (just the first 400 pages, I don't recommend reading past that). Basically, there is an "archetypal" plot that must be followed (or you will have a boring story). He also explains the fundamental relationship between men and women, and the powerful role of the feminine and masculine within storytelling.
Fundamental problem #1 with Spacelords is that the women are too masculine.
Fundamental problem #2 is the lack of "good and evil". This means that nothing is pure, and that there's no reason to fight. Raiders are committing an evil act by "raiding". "Antagonists" do the same thing. This lack of good and evil is evident throughout the plot and design of the fictional world of Spacelords.
This isn't a novel, wrong medium. This isn't a heavy story based game, like the Last of Us. This is an action hero shooter/brawler. Not all books that are good are War and Peace or The Grapes of Wrath. Also, this is a videogame, not a philosophy class or political statement. Remove your expectation.
If there is a female character you find too masculine then don't play her. If there is a female character that feels more feminine, then play her. ALL of the female characters are attractive in their own unique ways and very different from each other. I'm sorry not all of them are Barbie clones that all act like Betty Crocker. This is a war torn world and humans are given superhuman powers through Aleph. I find them more attractive than Betty Crocker and this is a relief. Betty Crocker is boring. but Hans might like her a lot.
If you don't like the way the women are depicted or the story line presented I honestly suggest you create your own game with the specifications that you like.
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Damn I didn't think it could get worst than my shit posts, but here we are! The pinnacle of stupidity.
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Damn I didn't think it could get worst than my shit posts, but here we are! The pinnacle of stupidity.
Some people think this is Overwatch, I guess. This game isn't PC, but it also isn't traditional or "wholesome". And it shouldn't be.
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Sorry, but NO! Who says it always has to be this way? If everyone in the industry would exactly follow this formula (sadly it happens often enough anyway) from now on, everything would be pretty boring, right?
This is the hero, he needs to look like this, this is the evil villain he needs to act like that, and that is the beautiful princess … wait, ughh!
No offense, but think again.
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We need more big booty, big titty bitches in the game.
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We need more big booty, big titty bitches in the game.
HELL YEAH
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I'm only trying to help. I've written a novel, a theological book, and a 14-hour video game script. I have real experience. Also, the only reason I'm here is that the game is almost great. It does many things at the highest quality that very few developers achieve. Since the developer continues to believe in seeing this game succeed (with new characters like Stefanie Joosten), I'm making suggestions.
Some simple things I would do:
1) The female characters are pretty hot, but they really need to be softened up. Some of them are currently animated in a way that makes them look too heavy (too much like a man). They also have way too much muscle and their shoulders are too big.
2) Attitude of female characters. Very few of them exhibit humility. There is nothing more attractive than a woman who is humble. A steadfast rule for attractive characters: men = authority, women = humility.
3) Get something righteous and good in the game. It currently is too dark and negative because amorality is the norm. Any new content should drive toward "renewal". History should not be ignored, as bad writing always ignores history (or tries to re-write history). We know what true morals are in our real world, and these must be carried through in any plot. (Think of the crusades, or WWI, or WWII, etc. What did they fight for, and who won?)
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Sorry TC, you may not like it, but the female cast in this game is what peak performance looks like. It's honestly refreshing to see female characters in a video game that aren't freakin stick figures, so no thanks...
And while the game does have quite the lore too it, story wise I don't think they're trying to make anything that's deep. Just a crazy/crude/fun journey.
But I agree with you on the good/righteous angle somewhat, since only Harec & Konstantin are the only characters with those traits...but since every character is so badass and likeable, I ain't too torn up about that. This is probably the only game I actually like all the characters (that goes for non playable characters too). Glad you're on the Riaders train, but don't be a party pooper mate, and enjoy the ride. Beers on Lycus.
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Spacelords has many inspired elements that are well executed, but these elements fail to merge due to a fundamental error (regarding plot and characters). I recommend the book, The Seven Basic Plots, by Christopher Booker (just the first 400 pages, I don't recommend reading past that). Basically, there is an "archetypal" plot that must be followed (or you will have a boring story). He also explains the fundamental relationship between men and women, and the powerful role of the feminine and masculine within storytelling.
Fundamental problem #1 with Spacelords is that the women are too masculine.
Fundamental problem #2 is the lack of "good and evil". This means that nothing is pure, and that there's no reason to fight. Raiders are committing an evil act by "raiding". "Antagonists" do the same thing. This lack of good and evil is evident throughout the plot and design of the fictional world of Spacelords.
Your opinions do not count as fundamental problems. If I wanted to I could form an opinion about anything and then disparage it that way.
The female characters run the gamut of very feminine to very masculine just like the male characters. Your perception of feminine and masculine is incorrect. Harec shows great compassion, that is a very feminine thing. Ayana shows great greed, that is a very masculine thing.
There is an incredible battle between good and evil taking place within the layers of the lore. You do not have to look very long to find out Uras-Beherit has been a persistent and very evil enemy.
They subtly shade the characters with motivations and actions that can be considered good or evil, this is called good writing. We cannot be sure that stopping Krausher is good in the overall scheme of the game. He has priorities and goals which do not seem evil from the Hades perspective and we find out later that Shamash is the Legacy and so without Krausher and Hades' Hecatoncheir there really is nothing to use against him. But the Raiders do not know that and Krausher is an immediate threat to their plans. It is ambiguous and that is why it is so good.
Uras-Beherit is constantly represented by the Antagonist. If the Uras-Beherit is anything then it is suffering. The Antagonist is its representative in that regard. Everything the Antagonist does is evil. They cannot even choose their own actions and instead are forced to follow Raiders throughout the mission, even if they wanted to help they cannot directly due so because of their connection to Uras-Beherit. The Uras-Beherit is the main bad guy and it is definitely evil.
The Raider's actions do not lead to more suffering, they stop a myriad of plots that would lead to far greater suffering, and so they should not be considered evil. Many of the Raiders are honorable and good people. Doldren even has his own set of principles and codes which he follows. His belief in a beautiful death and his respect for Shae and Harec show that.
This is all in the Universe section of the game, I suggest you check it out.
I'm only trying to help. I've written a novel, a theological book, and a 14-hour video game script. I have real experience. Also, the only reason I'm here is that the game is almost great. It does many things at the highest quality that very few developers achieve. Since the developer continues to believe in seeing this game succeed (with new characters like Stefanie Joosten), I'm making suggestions.
Some simple things I would do:
1) The female characters are pretty hot, but they really need to be softened up. Some of them are currently animated in a way that makes them look too heavy (too much like a man). They also have way too much muscle and their shoulders are too big.
2) Attitude of female characters. Very few of them exhibit humility. There is nothing more attractive than a woman who is humble. A steadfast rule for attractive characters: men = authority, women = humility.
3) Get something righteous and good in the game. It currently is too dark and negative because amorality is the norm. Any new content should drive toward "renewal". History should not be ignored, as bad writing always ignores history (or tries to re-write history). We know what true morals are in our real world, and these must be carried through in any plot. (Think of the crusades, or WWI, or WWII, etc. What did they fight for, and who won?)
Well, I have written several novels. It doesn't mean shit. Also, if you have written a book on theology then the ecclesiastical nature of the game should come off as very interesting to you. Because you didn't mention anything about that I will have to assume you have not read the Universe section, the skins lore, the weapons lore, the website's lore, the mission lore or the comic's lore.
All three of your last points scream of someone who is incredibly traditional in their beliefs of the world. I find them to be..shallow and kind of offensive. I think you should research the material you are critiquing before making such bold accusations.
The story is incredibly deep and spans many thousands of years with many many different characters and situations. It is to MSE's credit that such an involved plotline is not necessary for the casual fan to enjoy the mission-only lore.
One last thing; Stefanie Joosten is not the name of the new character. It is Sooma. Ms. Joosten is simply letting them use her name and voice for the character to create media hype. It is very weird that you consider the character and the voice actress to be the same. You do not consider Nikki Garcia to be HIVE, do you?
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^Good post from Poh.
And yikes, this is the exact response I predicted would happen.
1) The female characters are pretty hot, but they really need to be softened up. Some of them are currently animated in a way that makes them look too heavy (too much like a man). They also have way too much muscle and their shoulders are too big.
2) Attitude of female characters. Very few of them exhibit humility. There is nothing more attractive than a woman who is humble. A steadfast rule for attractive characters: men = authority, women = humility.
3) Get something righteous and good in the game. It currently is too dark and negative because amorality is the norm. Any new content should drive toward "renewal". History should not be ignored, as bad writing always ignores history (or tries to re-write history). We know what true morals are in our real world, and these must be carried through in any plot. (Think of the crusades, or WWI, or WWII, etc. What did they fight for, and who won?)
These are some extremely problematic statements directed towards women.
1) not all women are built or act the same. Sorry they fall outside of your cookie-cutter idea of what women have to be. They are fighters dealing with immense conflict on a war-torn alien planet. Lots of running, jumping, shooting, beating the shit out of things. It's nice to see some muscles for once. Play Mikah if you can't stand to see the sight of a woman that has muscles (not that there's anything wrong with Mikah, we all know SHE'S DA BEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEST). All of the characters, both male and female, are larger-than-life, like comic book characters (hell some of them even have comic books!). I mean Loaht has a huge belly but is ripped as hell, which isn't even how bodies work in real life. This is an artistic style choice.
Alicia is one of the main reasons I thought the game looked interesting, when I first saw the cinematic trailer in the playstation store. Never enough tough badass mohawked girls. It's pretty clear she's inspired by Tank Girl.
2) This is.... what? Women have to be timid little creatures for men to excercise authority over, so says you? This backwards philosophy isn't even worth debating.
3) Poh covered this one pretty extensively already.
You seem really misinformed as to the motivations of each character, the factions as a whole, as well as the main goal of the Raiders (basically Harec's and the Locals' goal, seeing as he's the leader). Lycus or whoever you have in mind as "amoral" might be a jerk but he's supporting the goals of Harec, which isn't even to really kill humans, he just wants to send them back to Earth so they leave him and his people alone.
You should probably read up the universe section, check out the comics on this very website, and learn about the plot and characters if that's where your interest lies.
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Who doesn't love Alicia's abs? Her design is one of the most uniques that I saw in a very long time, badass, sexy, strong, angry, everything... I started in this game just for her XD
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Guys this person is not for real. The second he suggested reading only the first 400 pages of some obscure book I knew he was out to troll everyone. Spacelords has plenty of problems, plot and ESPECIALLY character design are not among them. If we stop talking to him maybe he will go away and he can write another video game treatment.
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#slowclap....You people are wonderful. Its nice when you don't have to step in.
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To all, the game hasn't performed well (sales wise). If something doesn't change, the game will fail. We have to come to terms with market forces and human nature without fear or personal bias.
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To all, the game hasn't performed well (sales wise). If something doesn't change, the game will fail. We have to come to terms with market forces and human nature without fear or personal bias.
Well picking 2 things that are generally widely considered this game's strong suits (characters, art design, story) and making claims like they are facts is not gonna help things. You act like "sales" will suddenly skyrocket if Alicia stops cursing and loses her chiseled abs.
And do you have any figures to back this claim up? I have only heard that the playerbase has grown a large amount since the spacelords launch. It has been a while since MSE mentioned population, but I have no reason to believe they would have lied about the growth, and bringing on a well-known actress for a new character seems like a good sign as well.
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I have to admit that when I first saw the art of the game I fell in love with Alicia. And when I tried it (I was a journalist when I first came to the office!) I knew I would enjoy playing as her <3
Oh, look! A strong woman rescuing another woman ;D
(https://media.giphy.com/media/57WaJDbQ9aSpf4O5YF/giphy.gif)
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Where is this clip from?
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@tplarkin7
Gosh, look there's a strong woman in a video game, astonishingly!
Where is this clip from?
Looks like "In Shock".
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To all, the game hasn't performed well (sales wise). If something doesn't change, the game will fail. We have to come to terms with market forces and human nature without fear or personal bias.
This isn't a rated T game, man. This is rated M. This game is made to appeal to a more mature audience. And Audience that is mature enough to understand art outside the left and right tropes of characters. And audience who has a taste for nuance in characters. And audience that has a taste for the more gritty things in life. They have a target demographic, it's as simple as that. You may not be that target demographic. There are PLENTY of games that feature the things you may like.
And it's not like the woman in this game are a monolith either. Shae is a very traditionally feminine silky haired polite, well spoken woman. She has a strong personality, sense of duty and justice. Mikah is an older teenager who is a female who isn't a potty mouth and a quirky personality. Ginebra fits the role of the "overdeveloped" woman, the "Kate Upton" body type which is very feminine. One could argue that, hormonaly, she is HYPER feminine (all signs point to a breeder here). There is nothing mannish about Gin's body type. Then there is Valeria, who is more petite in body type and is about as traditionally feminine looking as I can imagine, although synthetic. She is a cyborg. Ayana is pretty female looking, she isn't particularly muscled. Iune is very athletic... i mean, sure hive is a bit ripped and so is Alicia, a tiny bit, but not really if you've ever seen REAL female body builders. I'm not sure what you're asking for.
do you want anime? Is that it? This game isn't Japanese, sorry. The faces tend to be more grounded a bit more in real human proportions. and all the better. The characters actually look different without simple color and hairdo swaps like Anime.
Can you explain more what you are asking for. Give examples of other games so we have a better idea. Because the female cast of this game are pretty diverse. Just because there is a few you don't like isn't grounds for their removal or change.
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do you want anime? Is that it? This game isn't Japanese, sorry. The faces tend to be more grounded a bit more in real human proportions. and all the better. The characters actually look different without simple color and hairdo swaps like Anime.
(https://i.4pcdn.org/s4s/1522624273974.gif)
(https://i.gifer.com/BIk9.gif)
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Can you explain more what you are asking for. Give examples of other games so we have a better idea. Because the female cast of this game are pretty diverse. Just because there is a few you don't like isn't grounds for their removal or change.
I'm asking for beauty grounded in truth.
The best examples I can think of are the Mass Effect Trilogy, Halo, Ninja Gaiden, The Last of Us, Dragon's Dogma, Witcher 3. I did play a ton of Overwatch because the original cast was awesome, but loot boxes and boring new characters ruined it.
What is my vision of a great game?
After writing my video game script, I started a comic book based on that story in hopes to promote the game. Here's a single panel:
(https://fishermengamestudios.files.wordpress.com/2018/11/capture.png)
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Self-plug that does nothing to add to the conversation.
(https://i.ibb.co/c1nyMk8/veryuncool.png)
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Who doesn't love Alicia's abs? Her design is one of the most uniques that I saw in a very long time, badass, sexy, strong, angry, everything... I started in this game just for her XD
*High five
Same here. ;D
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Can you explain more what you are asking for. Give examples of other games so we have a better idea. Because the female cast of this game are pretty diverse. Just because there is a few you don't like isn't grounds for their removal or change.
I'm asking for beauty grounded in truth.
The best examples I can think of are the Mass Effect Trilogy, Halo, Ninja Gaiden, The Last of Us, Dragon's Dogma, Witcher 3.
You must be fun at parties.
And you chose the most bland western character designed games (though I do dig Aria from ME) and a JPN game with weird faces. I am absolutely appalled...
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do you want anime? Is that it? This game isn't Japanese, sorry. The faces tend to be more grounded a bit more in real human proportions. and all the better. The characters actually look different without simple color and hairdo swaps like Anime.
(https://i.4pcdn.org/s4s/1522624273974.gif)
(https://i.gifer.com/BIk9.gif)
Forgive me Arnoldo catu san. I didn't not take into consideration your passion.
*kneels and bows* *commits seppuku*
I love anime by the way. but i'm old so I like older Anime. I only said this to the OP to tickle out what he wanted.
I love ya man. Don't kill me.
EDIT: Fairuza Balk though...my all time favorite girl.
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Can you explain more what you are asking for. Give examples of other games so we have a better idea. Because the female cast of this game are pretty diverse. Just because there is a few you don't like isn't grounds for their removal or change.
I'm asking for beauty grounded in truth.
The best examples I can think of are the Mass Effect Trilogy, Halo, Ninja Gaiden, The Last of Us, Dragon's Dogma, Witcher 3.
You must be fun at parties.
And you chose the most bland western character designed games (though I do dig Aria from ME) and a JPN game with weird faces. I am absolutely appalled...
there's nothing wrong with those females he's pointing out. They're great characters and look great. they fit the game their in. They probably wouldn't fit this game though. Shae maybe, would fit in those games. She'd be a bit exotic there, but she'd fit.
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Can you explain more what you are asking for. Give examples of other games so we have a better idea. Because the female cast of this game are pretty diverse. Just because there is a few you don't like isn't grounds for their removal or change.
I'm asking for beauty grounded in truth.
The best examples I can think of are the Mass Effect Trilogy, Halo, Ninja Gaiden, The Last of Us, Dragon's Dogma, Witcher 3. I did play a ton of Overwatch because the original cast was awesome, but loot boxes and boring new characters ruined it.
What is my vision of a great game?
After writing my video game script, I started a comic book based on that story in hopes to promote the game. Here's a single panel:
(https://fishermengamestudios.files.wordpress.com/2018/11/capture.png)
All those female characters are great, but they wouldn't fit into this world. This game world is a bit more wild. And those characters would seem boring females in contrast to the Broken Planet world and cast. Not that they aren't great for the context of their world. again, they're fine within their universe.
Spacelords is a mix of Mad Max, Borderlands, Space Pirate-like kind of game. It also has a bit more sense of comedic elements and doesn't take itself serious like those other games you mentioned. Those females from the games you stated are mostly serious and exist in serious games. You say you want more grounded females in a world that is not all that grounded and is a bit off the wall as it is.
There's nothing wrong with anime (sorry Arnold) but this isn't a game where petite big eyed angels survive. It would also ruin the world if cute little anime girls were in it, it's too gritty. Anime and grit never mixed (well old anime did, anime back from MY day.. heh heh). Furiosa from Mad Max would fit right in the Spacelords universe, so would many of the characters in that movie actually. And the opposite could be said.
I think you're expectations are out of context is all, not wrong. You're just expecting a psychological thriller from a romcom, or laser beams and cyborgs from Tolkein book, or expecting to see hipsters at a Cannibal Corpse concert. It's just out of place expectations.
All those games are great games you mentioned, by the way.
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You must be fun at parties.
And you chose the most bland western character designed games (though I do dig Aria from ME) and a JPN game with weird faces. I am absolutely appalled...
there's nothing wrong with those females he's pointing out. They're great characters and look great. they fit the game their in. They probably wouldn't fit this game though. Shae maybe, would fit in those games. She'd be a bit exotic there, but she'd fit.
Different strokes for sure, just my opinion.
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Thanks Level9, I get your point about context. Mercury Steam really has done an amazing job at building a consistent world. Everything from the architecture to the character design is believable and cohesive. The game as a whole is very impressive, even when compared to Mass Effect, or Halo. This is why I think they are "so close" to greatness.