Mercurysteam's Hangout
BARRACKS => Gameplay Feedback => Topic started by: ElvenNeko on June 10, 2017, 06:36:12 PM
-
I know that beta exist to find stuff like this and fix it, and i hope that something will change in release version, because current version of the game is just not worth playing because of ballance issues.
And that issue is - any premade team is impossible to beat. Even if they are worst players in this game, they simply need to do a few easy steps to never lose to anyone at all.
First - they stay together. Most of the levels allow to do that with ease, and that makes all antagonist character except snipers useles because if you try to shoot or approach - 4 man will shoot back at you, and you are dead. And if you snipe - there is 50% chance of being sniped back.
But let's say they split. Dunno why, maybe someome is dead, maybe they stupid. And... it's still impossible to kill anyone. Why? Even 1v1 fight is a gamble. This game is different from other assymetic games because here instead of playing a totaly different character you are just allied with bunch of stupid bots instead of humans. But you still are just as weak as 4 players opposing you, and it's totaly possible that only one of them will be enough to kill you all the time if your skills are very different.
But to show how bad things are in this game - let's assume that we are fighting 4y.o. children, who will always lose in 1v1 fight just because they are bad. How do they win then? As i said - staying close to the friend. If you start firing at them - they shoot you back, and even if they are terrible - 2 guns is still twice more bullets than one gun, and they probably will outshoot you. They did not and you downed one? While he runs to recover other is backing him up with covering fire. You can't finish him, if you shoot another one - first one will be already recovered and ready to protect second one.
So, go fore melee? And that is a 100% way to lose. Why? Grabs. They just spam grabs, all of them, not even trying to shoot or anything.
- You punch someone? Other guy grabs you.
- You performing the finishing animation on someone? Other guy grabs you. Why do they even allowed to grab in finishing animation?
- You try to avoid being hit? Other guy grabs you while you recover from dodge animation.
- You counter one grab with a hit? Get grabbed by other guy right aftar that.
- You try to shoot back? See how both of them charge on you and grab you.
This is stupid, but as long as they can grab you from any possible animation and without effort at all - any attempt to go melee 1v2 will fail. Even if you catch someone alone - he will dodge your attack long enough for his ally to arrive and perform grab. Already several times i met people who almost never tried to shoot, they just charged and spammed grabs, making killing them totaly impossible.
Oh well, no, it's possible if you wound someone and there will be bot nearby to finish one of them. But that does not matter because levels are short, and they have a lot of lives. Usually raiders run of aleph twice per level, and when they do - they either group up at the start and put a bullet wall between you and them, or, if there is no hall where they can group up - they just split and run to the opposite directions. 60 or 80 seconds not enough to even run close enough to every of them, not even talking about killing them (they might kill you instead with ease if they protact each other with grabs).
So there is only two easy rules - stay together, spam grab. Only snipers can counter that, but since in many locations spawns are too predictable - its easy to counter snipe them, or even rush for the grab - he won't be able to counter attack since other people will cover the grabber. I don't think that any player who played more than few games are capable of dying in 2v1 fight, it's just too one-sided.
It really feels like you are playing regular arena shooter buth in 1,5v4 mode. Arenas are too small, spawns are too limited to allow spreading enemy team and attack from different angle - in most situations you are coming exacly from where they expect you to come. And bots here are simple ignored by the players in most situations, they are too weak to provide any meaningful help at all.
To counter that antagonists should have special powers that standard raiders don't have (for example, forcing bots to attack certain target to make them busy and unable to help partner), and raiders should be nerfed (unable to grab at all - they still can beat anyone just as easy if they will attack in melee combat together, but at least it won't be instant). Other option is making the bost stonger, so raiders would pretty often die to them even without antagonist help.
And for those who will try to make excuses - right now i'm on the top of the antagonis league (for what it's worth among 5 total players) . And yet i understand that i can win only against people who yet have no idead how to play this game. Against those who played at least few games and understood 2 rules i can do nothing at all, only constantly die.
Maybe there is other things that could be done - dev's should see it clearer. Best way would be splitting the objectives, making team spread out so they could not assist each other so much, but probably that will be impossible for current level design and level size. But anyway, if on release ballance won't change dramaticly - people will figure out this fast enough and there will be no antagonists left at all - even now, with a lot of noobs to kill they have very few reasons to play without player progression at all, and when they will be unable not only win, but even kill enough players to leave them without aleph at least once... This game will turn into regular pve shooter with only few mission to play, and that will be the end of it. Or at least this is how i see it from here.
-
Antagonists are not supposed to win alot, so far its just a role for people who want to ruin others people session in more proactive way then usual. Unless we get separate mode where you cant be invaded by Antagonist - I vote for keeping him as weak as possible. Matchmaking currently is bad enough, I want some new stuff even from playing PUGs, and trust me with some teammates - you dont need Antagonist to fail.
Not every game needs to be Darksouls lvl of entry hardcore. Bots are strong as is - they provide chalenge and you can easly be swarmed if you dont pay attention.
I want for once to have a game where you can drop into PUGs and have good time without constant stress. So yeah - my opinion - keep protagonists strong.
-
This game is positioned as an asymmetic pvp game. Antagonists supose to win just as much as raiders, only at 50-50 winrate it will be ballanced. If you want to have an easy time - you should go play any of cooperative shooters, there is a lot of them. Tho i won't mind if they add matchmaking option without invasion, as long as they ballance main game mode.
-
Opinions. Evolve tried to do 50/50 - it ended up being impossible in the end to keep game interesting for all sides involved. But again - antagonist is just 20% of some games and at times not present alot - I am pretty sure its better to make game fun for raiders then antagonists in the first place - because you can live without antagonist, but not without riders.
-
How many times are you willing to repeat same small level without any challenge at all? This game will die without antagonists, unless developers will be able to create few new maps per week, that is certainly impossible. 4 people will stay as long as they have their challenge, and beating powerful players is a way long living challenge than just farming weapons and compliting maps.
-
I think that it is easier to win with the antagonist than with the raiders against an antagonist.
IMO the raiders should win more if someone should win more. Most people will prefer to play solo and the "trolling" role of the antagonist than coop with the raiders, more if they are randoms. So if the raiders only win 20% of matchs (fictional number), there will be a problem. Because you can get matchs without antagonists, but you can't play matchs without 4 raiders.
-
I am sure you guys will be the first to leave when you realize that you have no reasons to complete same levels again and again, farming them without any purpose when antagoinst's won't come because nobody will play them.
-
I am sure you guys will be the first to leave when you realize that you have no reasons to complete same levels again and again, farming them without any purpose when antagoinst's won't come because nobody will play them.
That has nothing to do with balancing to make it easier for the antagonist.
First, I thing that the ones that have it more easy right now are the antagonists.
Second, you are comparing premades of good players against an antagonist. Sorry, but premades of good players should go against the best antagonists, they shouldn't play against any antagonist. I don't buy the thing about the kids beating you if you know how this game works. The grab is really OP in this game, but for both ways, not only one.
The same way you are saying this I can say that a good antagonist can easily scare new players. My first match in this game lasted about 5 min only in a discouragment way because of the antagonist against we played....
In one thing you are right, snipers are the best option to play antagonist by far. And IMO that is what they should balance, so you can play antagonist with other classes in competitive way, but don't nerf the raiders. This game is hard enough for new players to frustrate them more when they don't know about the game.
For example try to play Alicia as antagonist against konstantin, if he save his special skill only for Alicia the antagonist has nothing to do. There is a need to balance weapons and some characters.
BTW, the goal of the antagonist is to make them fail their mission, not to kill them all in time before they can resurrect. And IMO, even if the antagonist die, only by being there he can make you fail because of the minions.
-
After playing against a solid group of Raiders I can say there is and is not balance. If one is thinking and realized who they need to take out first and go from there an Antaganoist can demolish a team quickly.
But right now my main issue is the Sniper. Forget his name at the moment. But in a 1v4 there is really no counter other than hoping to spawn close and kill him.
If you spawn elsewhere, and a good sniper sees you, an instant flick head-shot and you're dead unless you're also a sniper. I try to dive inbetween cover but if they coordinate RIP
EDIT: Shae can counter the sniper via her Skill, but that's all I got. My only suggestion would be enemy snipers or something. I'm not a dev tho so beats me.
-
Second, you are comparing premades of good players against an antagonist.
Now read post again, beacause it seems like you just read the title and then go respond asap. Especially the part that says:
But to show how bad things are in this game - let's assume that we are fighting 4y.o. children, who will always lose in 1v1 fight just because they are bad.
And everything after that.
-
Problem is, Elven, that you wastly overestimate the appeal of antagonist and underestimate whole "running same mission over and over for loot". Games like Diablo and Warframe has no meanigfull PvP and you 99.99% of time just dealing with stupid mobs only capabale of turning into shreds from unrelenting assault from your character.
And yes - eventually people are getting bored from it and run out of things to do - but hey if Pure PvE game that has nothing more then repeating same missions over and over vs stupid mobs can keep people entertained for thouthands of hours - I d say its fine. You will be bored from alot of stuff after spending so much time with it.
For me - antagonist is a distraction, and anoying whimp, who has nothing better to do then to watse others time for braging rights of having stigmatas. That is my opinion. Idealy I dont want to see antagonist in my games at all, unless I am playing with full premade team of 5 people and we just messing around.
Even games like "Dark Souls" realise that enforced PvP is bad thing and give you option to avoid whole thing for a cost of not having humanity\ember. Not everyone enjoys when their world is invaded by someone, I am sick of fighting humans for once - I want to come back from work, gather some friends and blast some creeps into pieces for an hour or two. I dont want to deal with Antagonist or "Git Gud" to beat buffed up version of it you so desperately want - I want some quality chill time even in PUGs. I am too old to compeet vs cofein-driven evil kids.
Run a poll or something to find out if whole Antagonist is a major attraction or just a neat gimmick that alot of people will never bother with - and then we can atleast brag at each other with "I told you!" depending on results.
IMO - this game will die or fly on raiders vs mobs gameplay and how ineresting and attarctive that will be.
And Warframe has prooven that sci-fi PvE grinder has its niche - I am burned out on Warframe after 4(!) years - and I want something new but simmilar - this game looks like fun times, once devs will pull technical aspects together (host and host migrations are really bad) and will figure out decent cash-shop without lotery tickets, and will sort out comunity splitting with DLCs.
Antagonist brigade will be very small but angry and loud portion of comunity - just like PvPer in Warframe. And devs will have to dedicate time and effort to them.
The only difference that in Warframe PvP is completely separated from main game, aside of vanity items you earn and even abilities and weapons are rebalanced specifically for the mod. And you can tottaly avoid it if you dont want to deal with it.
And in Raiders PvP is integrated into PvE and no real adjustments made, and you can't avoid it.
-
You just forgot to mention that Diablo has randomly generated maps, and it's not that much a game, as much as place for rmt and weaon size comparsion. Warframe has dozens of maps, that are big and variable. Will this game have at least 20 per season (that will last for a year or something like that)? That's enough for few days of gameplay maybe.
This game is designed to be pvp. For people like you there is a solol mode, and, hopefully, will be added mode without invasion. And for people like me, hopefully, standard mode will be modified to not ever start a game without invasion, because i will just leave if i have to repeat same easy map without any challenge. I am already doing that because im just bored, and want some real action.
-
Second, you are comparing premades of good players against an antagonist.
Now read post again, beacause it seems like you just read the title and then go respond asap. Especially the part that says:
But to show how bad things are in this game - let's assume that we are fighting 4y.o. children, who will always lose in 1v1 fight just because they are bad.
And everything after that.
I read your post, and I already said that I don't believe that people who can't beat you because they are bad will beat you in the mission.
You are looking for a hardocre pvp it seems, and I don't think this game is looking for this target, mostly when the only pvp that exist in this game is a 1v4. I wouldn't like a pvp of 4 vs overpowered 1. I played that type of games and I hated them. One of the things that I find different of this game and make it special is that the antagonist is just like you, only playing on the other side.
And I don't think they should buff the antagonist, maybe they could have some control over the minions or something to make the mission harder but without hurting new players, something that would only hurt long games. Something that is not too visual. It's not fun when a game end in 5 min.
And I know that I am not the only one because I saw a video on youtube of 3 players together playing on skype testing this game. They were beated hard by the antagonist in each game, after 30-40 min the streamer girl changed to another game and said she hated the experience because it was so frustrating. Only one of them wanted to test the game a little more and got how the game worked. IMO this game needs a way to make the entry for new palyers much easier if they want that the casual players will play for more than 1 day.
I saw another video of an antagonist, someone that ended first in ranking admitting that it was way easier to win as antagonist that as a raiders. some of his gameplays where incredible fast, and probably a bad experience for the raiders.
-
Second, you are comparing premades of good players against an antagonist.
Now read post again, beacause it seems like you just read the title and then go respond asap. Especially the part that says:
But to show how bad things are in this game - let's assume that we are fighting 4y.o. children, who will always lose in 1v1 fight just because they are bad.
And everything after that.
I read your post, and I already said that I don't believe that people who can't beat you because they are bad will beat you in the mission.
And I know that I am not the only one because I saw a video on youtube of 3 players together playing on skype testing this game. They were beated hard by the antagonist in each game, after 30-40 min the streamer girl changed to another game and said she hated the experience because it was so frustrating. Only one of them wanted to test the game a little more and got how the game worked. IMO this game needs a way to make the entry for new palyers much easier if they want that the casual players will play for more than 1 day.
I saw another video of an antagonist, someone that ended first in ranking admitting that it was way easier to win as antagonist that as a raiders. some of his gameplays where incredible fast, and probably a bad experience for the raiders.
Yeah I'm worried about the New Player experience vs. Antagonist.
Personally I was just fine with it as I've been "Welcomed" to Dark Souls many times by an invader. Honestly though it's similar as far as whether or not you get invaded. Just like Souls, if you don't want an Antagonist, play Solo. If you want to co-op, be ready for an Invader.
I think there's definitely an audience for this game, but not enough people have heard of it yet or had a chance to try it.
-
Well the problem is - solo mode offers no rewards or progression. Asuming that will be changed - we can asume that anything can be changed.
As for current game state- "If you afraid of Antagonist play solo" is not even an argument. You have no reason to play game solo after you got initial reward from you mission. Hell Shae resque doesnt have solo rewards at all.
-
You are looking for a hardocre pvp it seems, and I don't think this game is looking for this target, mostly when the only pvp that exist in this game is a 1v4
https://www.mercurysteam.com/raiders-of-the-broken-planet/community/index.php?topic=37.0
Raiders of the Broken Planet is a 4vs1 Online third person shooter.
This game is suposed to be played 4v1, thus it suposed to be ballanced for a real challenge, and not for the noobs who want an easy pve. I won't discuss this more because you trying to pretend that this game is not pvp oriented.
Also, i do not want Antagonist to be overpowered. I just want to get rid of cheap and unbeatable mechanics groups of players can use to create disbalance in game. And best way to deal with it will be not even buffing or nerfing someone, but instead forcing raiders to split, allowing Antagonist to catch them without friend's assistance. Maps with objectives on different levels are great example of that, even better would be if Antagonist would be able to destabilize those objectives, forcing players to move. Or you afraid of 1v1 combat with someone who have just the same abilities as you do?
They were beated hard by the antagonist in each game, after 30-40 min the streamer girl changed to another game and said she hated the experience because it was so frustrating.
No place for pussies in pvp games, right? Youtube guys are usually worst kind of gamers in terms of expirience, also the girls are almost never taking games serious or having any skill in them. That combined - she would start crying in almost every single competitive game. Especially those that are well ballanced, not like this one right now. When making online game you must not aim to please every noob who might just not like the game idea and shoud go to another game instead.
Entry for new players is easy enough. It's called solo mode. It has less rewards for a reason - because it is created for people to learn basics. But i would say 4-th time, in case you do not understand - i don't mind coop mode being added.
-
Second, you are comparing premades of good players against an antagonist.
Now read post again, beacause it seems like you just read the title and then go respond asap. Especially the part that says:
But to show how bad things are in this game - let's assume that we are fighting 4y.o. children, who will always lose in 1v1 fight just because they are bad.
And everything after that.
I read your post, and I already said that I don't believe that people who can't beat you because they are bad will beat you in the mission.
You are looking for a hardocre pvp it seems, and I don't think this game is looking for this target, mostly when the only pvp that exist in this game is a 1v4. I wouldn't like a pvp of 4 vs overpowered 1. I played that type of games and I hated them. One of the things that I find different of this game and make it special is that the antagonist is just like you, only playing on the other side.
And I don't think they should buff the antagonist, maybe they could have some control over the minions or something to make the mission harder but without hurting new players, something that would only hurt long games. Something that is not too visual. It's not fun when a game end in 5 min.
And I know that I am not the only one because I saw a video on youtube of 3 players together playing on skype testing this game. They were beated hard by the antagonist in each game, after 30-40 min the streamer girl changed to another game and said she hated the experience because it was so frustrating. Only one of them wanted to test the game a little more and got how the game worked. IMO this game needs a way to make the entry for new palyers much easier if they want that the casual players will play for more than 1 day.
I saw another video of an antagonist, someone that ended first in ranking admitting that it was way easier to win as antagonist that as a raiders. some of his gameplays where incredible fast, and probably a bad experience for the raiders.
is that the total biscuit video you're referenceing??? if so their track history is not very good on pvp.
-
No place for pussies in pvp games, right? Youtube guys are usually worst kind of gamers in terms of expirience, also the girls are almost never taking games serious or having any skill in them. That combined - she would start crying in almost every single competitive game. Especially those that are well ballanced, not like this one right now. When making online game you must not aim to please every noob who might just not like the game idea and shoud go to another game instead.
Entry for new players is easy enough. It's called solo mode. It has less rewards for a reason - because it is created for people to learn basics. But i would say 4-th time, in case you do not understand - i don't mind coop mode being added.
(http://memestatic3.fjcdn.com/comments/6201903+_2847ab592cdabffee27a8ae0268c651d.jpg)
Lots of online games would be dead if not for so hated by you "baddies".
Problem is - THIS game must yet get it audience - and yes that means it should appeal to "noobs" and baddies, cause otherwise you will have no people to play with.
Evolve, For Honour, Battleborn (aside of being butchered by launch during Overwatch launch) all failed to establish their audience both by being full priced games and by failing to not frustrate people with ill though mechanics.
If\when proper solo mode with full progression and "non-antagonist coop" will be added - fine, brag all you want about borked balance and that hardcore Anatagonist should win vs hardcore team of four people 50% of time, even if that will mean that Hardcore Antagonist will win 200% of time with badly coordinated team of casuals (guess what also contributed to sink of Evolve? Monsters were balanced around hardcore players so you had field day vs new players resulting in wooping winstreaks of 20+ games on consoles).
Antagonist is not alwasy present - AGAIN. And when antagonist is not present - this is PvE shooter,
And I can brag that people who seek hardcore PvP wont bother with this game - because its assymetrical 4 vs 1 PvP and thus you not exactly proving you are better in certain skill, you just acting as invader/very strong mob, not an "honorable combatant" .
As I said - I made a poll.
Ofc its not end all be all - but resulst... are what I expected.
http://www.strawpoll.me/13159908/r
Base game mode should be super inclusive and accesable by all sorts of age, skill lvl and manual dexterity and should be funtimes with PUGs and firstimers.
Not Solo, not tutorial - basic MAIN mode with PUGs matchmaking.
Otherwise no ammount of Antagonist balance will save it from biting the dust REALLY fast. In online coop games people are your content just as much (if not more) as actula ingame stuff. Alienating the "unworthy" is a fast way to game death by playerbase shrinking.
THEN - you can start adding chalenges and "risk-rewards" on top of that.
Higher difficulty settings for premade teams and solo with higher rewards and unique vanity stuff, rewards for killing antagonists and playing as antagonist aside of stigmatas. Non-binary win condition for antagonist - you still get rewards if you fail like raiders do when they fail, but you still get the coockie for trying - so even not so hardcore people would give it a chance.
Also "Solo Antagonist" mode where you fight vs drasticly buffed AI raiders could be a thing too.
-
is that the total biscuit video you're referenceing??? if so their track history is not very good on pvp.
I don't follow her, I only found the video looking for a gameplay of this game. Surely it was her, as I didn't find the video again but her voice is really similar.
The thing is that I don't think you should scare ppl like this even if they are good or bad in pvp. if the devs want this game to be oriented to hardcore players is their decision to do, but I think that this game need to be open to any type of player as it's in the middle of a pvp shooter game and a co-op shooter game.
if you see that some players are losing hard everytime, don't keep matching them against an antagonist, let them do a few games without an antagonist. But to do that the populations of raiders has to be way bigger than the antagonist.
I have played a lot of pvp games, and I have to admit that the first games have been hard. I enjoyed the game so far, but I enjoyed the game only when I played some games and I knew how it worked, I know that a lot of my friends won't be like me.
-
is that the total biscuit video you're referenceing??? if so their track history is not very good on pvp.
I don't follow her, I only found the video looking for a gameplay of this game. Surely it was her, as I didn't find the video again but her voice is really similar.
The thing is that I don't think you should scare ppl like this even if they are good or bad in pvp. if the devs want this game to be oriented to hardcore players is their decision to do, but I think that this game need to be open to any type of player as it's in the middle of a pvp shooter game and a co-op shooter game.
if you see that some players are losing hard everytime, don't keep matching them against an antagonist, let them do a few games without an antagonist. But to do that the populations of raiders has to be way bigger than the antagonist.
I have played a lot of pvp games, and I have to admit that the first games have been hard. I enjoyed the game so far, but I enjoyed the game only when I played some games and I knew how it worked, I know that a lot of my friends won't be like me.
. i dont know. tbh the mechanics in the game is really simple. iv also got beaten by non pre made teams. tbh all you need to do is study a little bit and you'll be fine. when i jumped on this week first think i went to was the quick guide. section and it just became that clear.
-
Well when game will go live - not very high percentage of people will go to even lurk on forums. People will most likely drop game long before they get to stage when they will might consider consulting forum.
And thats why Antagonist should be kept at bay. Its a wild-card that is not needed to be in game when people are just starting and are yet learning to deal with grappler mobs. Just like in fighting games - being matched vs vastly stronger oponent will result in nothing but frustration - as your ass will be wooped so fast, you will fail to learn anything aside of "fuk diz game".
But when you will feel like game became too easy, and its not fun to kill stupid AI anymore... then you can try to recruit Antagonist in your game or que into Ranked - WILLINGLY and KNOWING what you bring upon yourself, so when your ass will be kicked - you will have nobody but yourself... and teammates to blame :}. But not the game itself.
-
Well when game will go live - not very high percentage of people will go to even lurk on forums. People will most likely drop game long before they get to stage when they will might consider consulting forum.
And thats why Antagonist should be kept at bay. Its a wild-card that is not needed to be in game when people are just starting and are yet learning to deal with grappler mobs. Just like in fighting games - being matched vs vastly stronger oponent will result in nothing but frustration - as your ass will be wooped so fast, you will fail to learn anything aside of "fuk diz game".
forgot to mention, not the guide on the forums. i ment the ingame guide.... but then again.. what you said would more then like would applie to that guide as well.
-
Evolve, For Honour, Battleborn (aside of being butchered by launch during Overwatch launch) all failed to establish their audience both by being full priced games and by failing to not frustrate people with ill though mechanics.
And Dead by Daylight is thriving, despite it being a 4v1 game, having terrible ballance, technical state of an alpha (almost year of release, bugs from beta still present), and being a paid dlc fest. And i can give a lot more examples like that. Take fighting games - you need months of training to beat somewhat expirienced players. How many time you need for same task in Raiders? 1 or 2 games played? No, sorry, your players are not bad - they never even tried, and chose to rq instead.
(guess what also contributed to sink of Evolve? Monsters were balanced around hardcore players so you had field day vs new players resulting in wooping winstreaks of 20+ games on consoles
That shows how little you know about other games when you try to state reasons why they fail. Monsters in Evolve were a joke that could kill only pub players. Any coordinated team could not even hunt them, just wait on spawn an win. So many monsters left the game, that increased matchmaking timers, game were dead.
Base game mode should be super inclusive and accesable by all sorts of age, skill lvl and manual dexterity and should be funtimes with PUGs and firstimers.
This is where you are wrong. What is written on main page of this game? "Why we need another shooter"? There is enough casual games out there. Not every game should to cover as big audience as possible because then all games would be just the same. If people were thinking as you do, there would never be rts, mobas, survivals, fightings, stealth and other genres that take time and skill to be good.
-
This is where you are wrong. What is written on main page of this game? "Why we need another shooter"? There is enough casual games out there. Not every game should to cover as big audience as possible because then all games would be just the same. If people were thinking as you do, there would never be rts, mobas, survivals, fightings, stealth and other genres that take time and skill to be good.
What has this to do with being a hardcore game or not? Being inclusive to new players has anything to do with being creative and original.
The game is different from other shoters, has interesting mechanics, and that doesn't mean they should make the game only for hard players. That is what I think they meant when they wrote "Why we need another shooter?", they never wrote anything about casual shoters on the main page.
And BTW, if this game will be harcore or not is a decision the devs will have to do. I haven't read in any part that this game will be special hard as dark souls or any other game.
I get that you worry about the balancing (not ballancing) in the end game and more competitive players, I worry more about the players will keep playing after 2 days.
-
This game hardly aiming to steal audience from RTS, MOBAs, survivals, fightings and stealth + RTS and MOBAs have scrubs and baddies as their main audience.
http://www.leagueofgraphs.com/rankings/rank-distribution - observer Rank distribution in LoL.
You see how little people overall get to Diamond and Platinum? And I am not even talking casual mode that is not shown here.
No every game needs fanatical dedication, sometimes game just needs to be fun to play.
And both RTS and MOBAs are more or less at their "funniest" stage for me when you just messing around as scrub with other scrubs - no rigid buildorders, no rigid meta picks, no raging on shit going south, cause you just messing around and no hard feelings, you learn new things and thats why loss is not as harsh. But once it stops being game and becomes competition I lose interets very rapidly.
I play games to have fun, not to compete with others - and alot of people do that too. Because I for once have real life, real problems and enough headbutting with people IRL, so its not welcome in games. I also have stable income and money that I am willing to spend on recretional activities like games and movies - if they are worth my time and leave a feeling of satisfaction in the end.
And definition of "casual coop shooter" is vague at best. I know only one game that is semi-occupies that spot and feels great doing so - again - Warframe.
I know no game of same caliber who comes even close to Warframe in terms of how much stuff you get to do in it for free. And not only Warframe has all that stuff - its still keep on giving - development is slow but steady and if you pick Warframe now as new player - you will have few years before you will finish every possible activity in game and max all equipment.
And Warframe did that because how inclusive game is and how you can pretty much be completely freeloading and get every game-play reliant stuff for free - if you willing to dedicate time, or you can buy everything with plat if you cant wait, or anything inbetween.
What else can be considered casual coop shooter? Killing Floor 2?
When you say RTS and MOBAs - I guess what you mean is Starcraft 1-2, DOTA and LoL. Because no other RTS is currently has any sort of relevance - its alot of them on the market, but they dont have millions or even just tens of thouthand people playing them.
Same for MOBAs - there are alot of them yes, but aside of LoL, Dota and probably Heroes of The Storm - all of them irrelevant right now. Strife, HoN, Dawngate (RIP) - where are they now? I guess Vanglory is doing ok - but its niche mobile title.
"Bloodline champions" died out because of being too hardcore and thus being unable to sustain decent playerbase + breakge of promise to not give stats edge to anybody for sake of giving people progression. Newbs were slaughetred by vets who not only had superior game knowledge but also superior stats on their characters.
Current incarnation of BC - "Battlerites" - is doing better but has same problem - game requres alot of dedication, something that alot of people just wont do - why waste hundreds of hours on another PvP game? But atleast they are not repeating same mistake with giving Vets more power.
Fighting games are niche and again most "relevant" of them run on well known franchises - Street Fighter 5(!), Mortal Combat 10(!!), Gulty Gear Whatever, King of fighters 14(!!!). Injustice is "kinda" new but its basicly Mortal Combat with DC crew. Again lots of dedication needed to play on top lvl that not alot of people will be willing to do.
"Raiders of Broken Planet" are trying to do what Battleborn, Evolve failed to do. Be many things at once - its coop, its PvE, its asymmetrical PvP (symmetrical in case of Battleborn), its B2P with F2P mechanics of skins and tickets, its story driven, but relies on multiple repetition to get items you need. Fail a single aspect and game overall will crumble.
Games like "Overwatch", "Starcraft", "Street fighter", "Dota", "LoL", "Witcher", "Nier Autromata" - share one simple thing - they are are not trying to be many things at once.
They do one thing great. And they also inclusive while doing so - some by design (difficulty setting in single player games), others by virtue of having HUGE playerbase and thus being able to mach pros with pros and scrubs with scrubs without turning matchmaking into slogfest.
But if you dont have virtue instantly huge playerbase (cause you are not Blizzard and thats your first online game release ever on a very scetchy busines model of episodic releases) hardcore aspect of the game should not be main concern. Diehard fans who just like whole idea will play no matter what, even if expirience will be subpar - but other players wont be so kind. Again its alot of different games around - and if one isnt fun - they will find one that is.
But ofc, I am just a scrub who wants my game to be fun, instead of constant struggle. And want alot of different people playing alongside, even if sometimes I will have to carry them or give advice.
-
Well the problem is - solo mode offers no rewards or progression. Asuming that will be changed - we can asume that anything can be changed.
As for current game state- "If you afraid of Antagonist play solo" is not even an argument. You have no reason to play game solo after you got initial reward from you mission. Hell Shae resque doesnt have solo rewards at all.
Didn't even realize that part. Yeah Solo Mode needs equal rewards for sure.