Mercurysteam's Hangout
BARRACKS => Gameplay Feedback => Topic started by: Alex2199 on August 10, 2019, 01:36:36 AM
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So let me explain my frustration. Every raider in the game has a weapon were you have to try to actually get kills. Yes some may be a little better than the rest, for example plague. Plague is a powerful weapon although Hive still has to be near the target to even get useful damage out. However, Shakura you literally just have to sit behind cover and send the ball out.
Now I am the last person to call something overpowered, I will always see something as a counter to something else. Which I will admit Harec is an amazing counter for Valeria. That being said Shakura is beyond this. I recently started over on Spacelords on Steam to get the full feel of a new player experience. I can now understand why so many new players are leaving.
MMR puts low tier players with a tier 1 valeria with Shakura? That's an instant lose for the raiders! Especially if its on tight missions like "Hanging by a Thread" The Valeria just sat in the back and sent her overpowered death orb flying at our spawn. I am not even mad that we lost to her I am mad because she didn't even have to try! All of her other guns have a sort of synergy and that's what I love about Valeria, the fact two things in her kit work so amazingly well together. Shakura's only "synergy" is the fact that the gun reduces cooldown...which her other guns do to. This gun is the reason so many new players are quitting that and the impossible grind for xp! Why do max level players only get a maximum of 400xp while low level players get nothing on the fifth day? This maxs no sense...if the level cap is going to be capped make it where even low level people get a little something on the fifth day! They are struggling and struggling isn't a grind its a chore.
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i don't share your opinion.
full powered shakura is OP against new players, as any other full powered weapon. moreover situation where shakura is uncounterable are few...
then i'm not sure but i think there is often a high player in teams with high antag.
and finally players have to learn that all team need a counter antag, who need to think about the worse situation possible on the map.
for example, beast'lair --> valeria + shakura, so the counter antag must choose a character to counter that.
is shakura strong ? yes.
is shakura unbeatable ? no.
This gun is the reason so many new players are quitting
-> lol...
i thought it was doldren... ::)
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Not gonna lie, I’m too lazy to read everything.
My personal stance on Shakura is you should have to be within a certain proximity of the Quantuam Projectile for it to activate its damage. This would encourage an active CQC playstyle rather than hiding around a corner with infinite ammo and no aleph signature.
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i don't share your opinion.
full powered shakura is OP against new players, as any other full powered weapon. moreover situation where shakura is uncounterable are few...
then i'm not sure but i think there is often a high player in teams with high antag.
and finally players have to learn that all team need a counter antag, who need to think about the worse situation possible on the map.
for example, beast'lair --> valeria + shakura, so the counter antag must choose a character to counter that.
is shakura strong ? yes.
is shakura unbeatable ? no.
This gun is the reason so many new players are quitting
-> lol...
i thought it was doldren... ::)
Im not saying its unbeatable I'm saying its impossible to fight against if the whole team is a low tier and with the mission being too tight together. For example Hanging by a thread. Not even a Harec can stalk out of the door without dying. The team could not win at that point
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Im not saying its unbeatable I'm saying (...) The team could not win at that point
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so for you :
"unbeatable" have a different meaning than "can not win"...
but you are just asking it to be remove from the game.
so what the point removing a weapon wich is not unbeatable (but against you can not win...) ?
anyway... i have never encountered any problem with valeria in this mission.
i don't even remember having fought a valeria in this mission in fact...
but take doldren, take harec or take valeria too and fight...
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i just tried valéria as antag on hanging by a thread.
(it was moslty boring, as always with valéria antag imo, but well...)
all "young players", the highest was rank 3 or 4. the 3 others was 5.
and they had a doldren (rank5), but... i'm playing it so much that he is not really a threat to me, especially with valeria, since you have nothing to do except waiting for him...
so, indeed, they lost.
but each time, it took time and they had to use their brain, (few seems able to do that in this game) but they figured a way to counter me.
they just lost too much lives to find each solution, so on the last part, well, they died...
(yet on this one they could have just coordinate their attacks... but well...
they were not really efficient players tbh.)
anyway.
conclusion is, i still don't think a team even of new players can not win against her in this map. but you are right it is a map where she can be a real nuisance.
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As a tier 6 I cant bring Doldren because I don't have him were he is a viable option. I cant use Harec is there is no way behind her. I cant take Valeria because her level requirement is too high for me to get her.
You. Cannot. Beat. Her. if she places her bridge in the spawn door way and she hides on the side behind cover of the map and no one can get to her. If I was a higher tier with every raider in the game like I am on Xbox I wouldn't be as mad as I am because I could have brought a viable Doldren. But as a tier 6 raider my punches only do 1 damage to an antagonist who can do 80. And yes I know grapples beat dodges but I cant grapple whenever her orb instantly downs me
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My strategy for valeria would be to play a character with a high health pool and a hp regeneration card. though it was a big open map, double agent, me and a team of players had a valeria antag. I could tell they kept staying behind cover and using the rosen bridge to kill. My teammates, while they used the enemy Ai to go after me. though i kept eliminating them, which pissed off the Valeria player. so after he or she spawned where i was, most likely to kill me in order to stop me from Killing their minions they gave orders to. They foolishly followed me into a trap, which a doldren player on my team and i traded blows with them and took the Valeria player out. After that they logged off, it's all about bait and expose in the open for me anyway. find a way to lure out that Valeria antagonist and set them up with a little ambush or trap.
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My strategy for valeria would be to play a character with a high health pool and a hp regeneration card. though it was a big open map, double agent, me and a team of players had a valeria antag. I could tell they kept staying behind cover and using the rosen bridge to kill. My teammates, while they used the enemy Ai to go after me. though i kept eliminating them, which pissed off the Valeria player. so after he or she spawned where i was, most likely to kill me in order to stop me from Killing their minions they gave orders to. They foolishly followed me into a trap, which a doldren player on my team and i traded blows with them and took the Valeria player out. After that they logged off, it's all about bait and expose in the open for me anyway. find a way to lure out that Valeria antagonist and set them up with a little ambush or trap.
Which would work if I had characters with a high health pool but again all low tiers we were basically playing the starter characters against a tier 1 Valeria with zero point
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That is very problematic, I've had my fair share of new players on the team getting destroyed by a high level antagonist. it's the kind of thing that does frustrate you/me. but i like to think that one team can gang up on the antagonist. circle around stealthy while drawing the antagonists attention to one or two other players. i like to call the raptor set up, two ay the side, that antagonist won't see until it's too late.
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That is very problematic, I've had my fair share of new players on the team getting destroyed by a high level antagonist. it's the kind of thing that does frustrate you/me. but i like to think that one team can gang up on the antagonist. circle around stealthy while drawing the antagonists attention to one or two other players. i like to call the raptor set up, two ay the side, that antagonist won't see until it's too late.
exactly
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I had a Valeria on that stage, I can say my teammates played really well against her, but having a Doldren with the "one punch" build really helped.
No wonder the player pool is small, a player with 20 hours or even less into the game can already face this kind of bullshit. It's like if you were a lvl 10 player doing some fetch quest on a MMO and a dungeon boss kill you out of nowhere, making you repeat the quest from the start.
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I think what yall are not understanding is the fact that we couldn't get to her. If it was a larger map yes I understand the circle her tactic. I am a max tier player who started over on steam. I am not just some new player complaining about random shit that kills me in one match. I am complaining because a group of low tier players we couldn't do shit about it. The highest level tier was 4. She killed us all and then placed her orb directly in front of the hallway that our spawn point is on while the Valeria hid behind the crates behind her bridge. There was no way to leave spawn, none of us had Doldron because none of us have bought/rented him and even if we did it wouldn't have mattered because her bridge was already instantly downing the Shae that we had and the Valeria was standing directly behind her bridge. Again I am not mad that we lost I truly don't care about losing anymore. I am mad because the Valeria just had to kill 3 people (one of the raiders left) and then just place down her bridge. All her other weapons provide a sort of synergy, Shakura does now...Shakura just has to exist and your dead and you cant do anything about unless you a Harec with stronger guns or a doldren with a good amount of points into CQC/stronger gun. This weapon needs a nerf and if MSE wont do that then it needs to be taken out of the game before more player base quit.
Players use to complain about The Whip being overpowered and MSE has nerfed that to hell but they will allow this shit? It makes no sense for Valeria to have this sort of power. At least with Hive's plague you have to aim and get close to the enemy.
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Is this a problem with Shakura or really just with match making?
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I am a max tier player who started over on steam. I am not just some new player
from what i see that's not proof of anything in this game. but that's not the subject.
She killed us all and then placed her orb directly in front of the hallway that our spawn point is on while the Valeria hid behind the crates behind her bridge. There was no way to leave spawn
what about the incibility time ?
i don't know where she put it exactly, but when you respawn you should have enough time to run out of portal effect.
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Yeah, like sonofoz said. there is a invincibility frame. why didn't you and your team bolt out of there as soon as you spawned? though i do feel your frustration man. had a hans player who was purple tier 1 just camp at the spawn door and kill us one by one as we spawned. might of been the same valeria player lol but oh well.
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Welcome to spacelords where the community shits on each other and then wonder why it's so small! Damn it why are my antag queue so long! "I mean come on I only made like 200 newbies rage quit last week by insta killing them with my breath!?"
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had a hans player who was purple tier 1 just camp at the spawn door and kill us one by one as we spawned.
yup, i do it with konstantin, hive or even shae when i can.
it can be an effiocient way to bash somes lives quickly.
especialy when they spawn back one by one or when team mates are blind and you can kill the 2 poor same lads again and again while the 2 others are running like happy magic unicorns across the field... ;D
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The immunity time always ran out before we could make it out. As a tier 6 the second that immunity ran out I was still just barely out of the range. She then either finished me off with her gun or just sent another orb out. I tried every trick to leave the area but couldn't. The problem is both the match making and Shakura because even though I could have gotten out as a higher tier it still would have been unfair and annoying as hell...but I guess that's why people play antagonist to annoy people. Again all of her guns have synergy other than Shakura and it makes all of her other guns useless. When was the last time you saw a Valeria use anything other than that gun? Its too strong and is killing off the newer players. That and the level cap but that's a whole post in its self
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Welcome to spacelords where the community shits on each other and then wonder why it's so small! Damn it why are my antag queue so long! "I mean come on I only made like 200 newbies rage quit last week by insta killing them with my breath!?"
Unlike what MSE thinks, I think in the long term having dedicated PvE would actually decrease Antag queue wait times, because the community would begin to blossom.
There are many people who simply don't have the reaction times, positional awareness, or aiming skills to compete in PvP in spacelords. But, The storyline, art, atmosphere, graphics, music, etc is so good they would want to meme/emote around, spend money on skins, flaunt said skins etc. As they meme around in PvE, they increase passives/guns and learn to play better and better, and eventually dip their toes into PvP, which should have exclusive rewards and much higher rewards than PvE.
Noobs don't want to get deleted from gameplay for 10 seconds 19 times a game by a higher rank who has both more skills, better guns, and higher passives. So they move to a different game.
And veterans don't want to play with noobs and have their experiance ruined. I don't like playing as antag. The reason I play online games is to play as a team because it feels good to be a valuable team asset. If I was going to play solo I'd just go play DMC or something. Getting teamed with noobs that do nothing but give the antag a constant stream of immunity is not fun. Or watching the scene for the 4000th time.
By MSE saying "antag is core to spacelords, it stays no matter what" they are cutting out like 75% of gamer demographic right from the start. The COD empire can afford to do that but I don't think MSE can. Think about how many gamers in the world only play Diablo or MMO or RPG that don't have advanced FPS/TPS skills at all. Well does MSE want their money, or do they want to scare them away with Meta tryhard alicia with smoking daisy etc etc.
Well, whatever they are doing I don't think is working. There was a small bump with Sooma and MOP update but now barely anyone is streaming on PS4 again.
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but I guess that's why people play antagonist to annoy people.
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omg...
yeah or for the challenge or to change, or because they are bored to be team-up with players who can't even quit their respawn zone without dying in a loop... ;D
When was the last time you saw a Valeria use anything other than that gun? Its too strong and is killing off the newer players.
pretty often...
and these exploding orbs just instant wound anyone...
no, what surprises me with shakura or her others guns, is they do not need amo to fire its special.
for example take shakura, let's say the portal need ten ammos to be placed, firing an orb need 5 and then each dot needs one or two (or adjust as you want to be balanced).
and you'll have the same "problem" as with sadhu, you won't be able to stay hidden all games long because you'll need to refill ammo.
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Unlike what MSE thinks, I think in the long term having dedicated PvE would actually decrease Antag queue wait times, because the community would begin to blossom.
Pretty much true, but the game has got a bad reputation already. i tried to get some friends here some time ago, and the response was "frick that 4vs1 bullshit man, I don't want to play that thing again with the antagonist mechanic."
Games are made with the idea of "entertain" the players. Maybe this game doesn't want to make a full cooperative experience, but... competitive? At a random pace? You want PVP players or PVE? These kind of decisions (because PVP is hurting PVE and vice versa) are cutting new players, everyday. It isn't getting any attention on Twitch neither (50 viewers at best is just sad).
Maybe a new game mode, separate PVE from PVP would help. Something funny happened at the start of july; Fortnite (yes, that game) went nuts when the developers quit the team mode with unlimited lives. Players spoke, they wanted the mode back. Epic didn't wait too long to make the mode permanent. Now everyone is happy and people is even getting on battle royale because they feel confident enough to try it.
Funny story, MSE, about being stubborn. Even Epic listens to their playerbase better than you.
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On topic, yeah, Shakura is a player killer. The only way to endure it I found is with a good Harec or a good Doldren pressing against Valeria. Maybe a Loath can suck a chunk of pain and transform. Dunno. The weapon is just very good on tiny spaces. Make it so it needs 30 bullets to change direction, or shooting the orb to change it, maybe that would balance the things a little.
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Shakura is op for sure. It has minimal risk to kill raiders, especially, when she can camp.
One of strong things in this game is something that can damage you even in cover or kill you almost instantly.
Guns that can kill you in cover:
Hive's skill, especially plague+explore card
Rak's shepard
Ayana's legacy
Schneider's all guns
Kuzz' licht bogen
Aneska's default and special
Val's all guns
The most effortless, low risk, and high dps ones are Shepard, Shakura and Licht bogen.
Low risk means, you can damage your opponents while you take cover. All other guns requires you to be exposed (you have to aim and shoot.)
In addition to it, Shakura has the highest dps if she uses her guns along with the skill. If she camp, almost no one can kill her. Good Harec is not in your team when you need him the most.
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Hi everyone!
As we explained on another thread, the Shakura is going to be balanced in the next update, Heavy Metal.
As usual, thank you very much for your feedback, it's always very useful in order to make adjustements ;)