Mercurysteam's Hangout
BARRACKS => Gameplay Feedback => Topic started by: ScimitarSlice on July 31, 2019, 07:12:38 PM
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I think everyone would agree that this changes the game a lot.
The maps were not designed with this mechanic in mind. They are just going to be jammed in somewhere? I don't think this could end in a good result.
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1) Indeed maps were not designed with this in mind
2) The new system will further force players to run around like headless chicken looking for aleph, as if looking for aleph dropped after killing an elite wasn’t bad enough…
3) The new system takes away all the fun that was to be had from getting a finisher on an elite
4) I can already see players not doing objectives and/or taking care of mobs and simply hanging around known aleph spawns.
5) The new system even further destroys the flow of combat/gameplay, before when aleph and ammo were obtained from mobs directly everything had a nice rhythm, you obtain resources as you did combat, it was very satisfying.
6) Last but certainly not least, the system is simply boring and mundane, the type of system that is used everywhere…
Are we supposed to cheer and clap when a unique system is dumbed down to this level?
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Each map was altered to compensate for the new changes to allow things to flow more smoothly. In the mean time just give it a week and just try it out.
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Each map was altered to compensate for the new changes to allow things to flow more smoothly. In the mean time just give it a week and just try it out.
So they used up time and resources to modify maps for new aleph (something no one wanted) instead of just making new maps (something everyone wanted)?
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Each map was altered to compensate for the new changes to allow things to flow more smoothly. In the mean time just give it a week and just try it out.
So they used up time and resources to modify maps for new aleph (something no one wanted) instead of just making new maps (something everyone wanted)?
Truth is we did not alter map meshes, but adapted all missions' logic + placed all aleph deposits by hand + tweaked their spawn values for each one of the missions in the game.
Some of the missions that heavily focused on aleph-charged elite/looters hunting remain the same as they were before.
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I think everyone would agree that this changes the game a lot.
The maps were not designed with this mechanic in mind. They are just going to be jammed in somewhere? I don't think this could end in a good result.
We took good care when placing the deposits as well as tweaking their spawn values. That said, I'm sure we'll have to re-tweak those after the patch release.
When placing deposits we took different approaches for each one of the maps/missions, so that they stayed faithful to their original concept while adding an extra twist to the whole experience.
In out latest video (https://youtu.be/ikO1dmpEVp8) we showcased White Noise's aleph deposits. In that map all deposits may appear in the highest places of the map, on those tower-like structures.
The original map design had those towers in order to let players avoid miners (when they would spawn mines like crazy), while leaving players exposed to Fifth Council elites/gun shot grunts, that could push the player by shooting at him.
By placing the deposits there we're emphasizing those towers' use even more, since climbing them will now be more useful.
Some other missions have deposits scattered around the less used spaces in the level, some others have all deposits in the same place...etc. That's how tried to spice things up without breaking the missions' original concept. :)
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The game is a glorified easter egg hunt now
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Yeah, me and my friends tried it out after playing non-stop for 2 weeks and won't be playing again until it's revoked or reworked. There's 0 reason to attack elites now, so players just ignore them and anyone not playing a sniper just gets shot to death. It slows the games down and is just some new mechanics to try and tip the scales in antags favor. No thanks. Totally ruins the game.
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I have a problem with it. The aleph drops are nothing but another hindrance on the mission, before, killing elites were not only a way to clear the path but also mission progression, now you have to run around the map being not only target of enemies but also antagonists, which can also get the aleph and use it for their own benefit. Antagonists can also destroy it. The aleph spawns in some missions are not even quick enough for being of tactical use like it was advertised.
So yeah, I think it's pretty bad overall.
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Antagonists can also destroy it.
wait, so the antag can just shoot the appearing "natural aleph deposits" to explode/destroy it? I will admit I haven't even tried it, but that sounds it will lead to some game breaking moments. The antag will no longer even need to kill raiders for some phases of some missions. He/she will just have to make sure they use a long/mid range gun and camp all the aleph spawnings, once they memorized when and where it will pop up. All they will have to do is run away and avoid dying to the raiders and occasionally shoot some stationary targets. Someone who has tried it can please correct me if im wrong.
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well, i believe there is more than one deposit at the same time on some map (not sure), moreover some are not reachable by far shot.
but, well, more or less, yes, i think it can be way to play antag with the new deposit system.
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some are not reachable by far shot.
What do you mean. Harec can reach anywhere instantly; that's the whole point of the character. The challenge of Harec is hitting a moving target inside the charging damage multiplier window and with bolt-action long reload times. But the aleph is just a sitting duck. Stationary easy target. Bigger than a head, too. Even loaht's big mutant head ;)
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Well, the overall experience has decreased a little. Stealing aleph of super soldiers/elite was on point, gave the game a fast pace. This situation creates a new role in the meta: The Aleph Runner, a character focused on getting Aleph and deploying it to the team (Ginebra and Alicia are tops here). Problem is, this slows the gameplay and is less about the CQC and more about cleaning the mobs with a big bad gun (in fact, before you had to choose between killing with guns or fists).
It makes the game less unique. These steps are throwing more dirt in this unpolished gem.
And to think that the game formula of random PvP was the thing that I didn't really like, and now is more about these strange and unappealing mechanics. Damn. Just damn.
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Problem is, this slows the gameplay and is less about the CQC and more about cleaning the mobs with a big bad gun (in fact, before you had to choose between killing with guns or fists).
Pretty much. This is probably the reason why they decreased the amount of ammo you get from normal enemies.
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some are not reachable by far shot.
What do you mean. Harec can reach anywhere instantly; that's the whole point of the character. The challenge of Harec is hitting a moving target inside the charging damage multiplier window and with bolt-action long reload times. But the aleph is just a sitting duck. Stationary easy target. Bigger than a head, too. Even loaht's big mutant head ;)
i'm not speaking in terms of distance, but position.
take the second mission of umbra wardogs.
(don't know the english name, must be something like "without reserve.")
some deposits are on the path below.
so of course, harec or any other character can shot it. but it will have to be close to it, not at a safe distance. because the position is unreachable by a far away shot.
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in fact, before you had to choose between killing with guns or fists)
yes and gauging risk/reward of whether go for the melee or just killing them with the gun was a big part of the strategy and fun
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some are not reachable by far shot.
What do you mean. Harec can reach anywhere instantly; that's the whole point of the character. The challenge of Harec is hitting a moving target inside the charging damage multiplier window and with bolt-action long reload times. But the aleph is just a sitting duck. Stationary easy target. Bigger than a head, too. Even loaht's big mutant head ;)
i'm not speaking in terms of distance, but position.
take the second mission of umbra wardogs.
(don't know the english name, must be something like "without reserve.")
some deposits are on the path below.
so of course, harec or any other character can shot it. but it will have to be close to it, not at a safe distance. because the position is unreachable by a far away shot.
I think I understand exactly what your are talking about. That makes sense. I still think stalking harec shooting alephs might get troublesome though.
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So got around to testing this new system and with the added perspective of doing so as a lower lvl player (since I used my console smurf account because I had uninstalled the game from steam).
Not a whole lot to add, it ended up being as bad, boring as it sounded, with added issues I had not imagined, such as aleph scarcity. It brings only tedium, especially if you are a 5th council (other than Ginebra), killing elites lost its rewarding feeling as expected and quite simply looking around the environment for aleph deposits =/= fun, man it was depressing doing “Hanging by a Thread”, seeing all those elites that spawn at the beginning of the last phase and knowing they mean nothing.
Since the aleph deposits are most certainly not OP the only kind of band-aid temporary fix I can imagine is reducing the aleph they spawn to only 1 (regardless of mmr) while giving back aleph to elites, and have them simply be an alternative way of gaining aleph, the kind of thing you just bump into but not necessarily waste time hunting for.
But in general the whole state of the game is currently depressing, sadly the bad in recent updates vastly outweighs the good, like I was telling a veteran raider I frequently group up with the other day (one that has been in the game even longer than I), at least we got to experience the game in its kind of “golden age” when it was buy to play, post Hades, because what we have now is just a shell of what once was…
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in Overwatch they just did a drastic overhaul of Bridgette. Thousands of people complained about her, even hiigh level Brig players said she was making the game dumb. So blizzard did something.
In SP thousands of people of have complained about the randomness of MMR, forced PvP, ping, host migration, balance, grind, and a bunch of other things. Not one person ever complained they don't want to get aleph elites, they want to pick it up from some random place.
Blizzard didn't magically start out as a billions dollar company. They achieved that through good decisions.
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Like diablo immortal? Or diablo 3 for that matter? Why don't you say anything about tolchok nerfs? Atlas rework? Bots for players that quit?
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Like diablo immortal? Or diablo 3 for that matter? Why don't you say anything about tolchok nerfs? Atlas rework? Bots for players that quit?
this thread is about new aleph system. what is your opinion?
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Its a cool addition. Could use some work number wise. Elite should probably drop aleph. Right inside raider ideally. And antags ads should be buffed. They to weak right now. Base raider ads could be toned down they a bit to strong right now .
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Isn't this kind of crappy for doldren. Half of his use was ambushing elites for aleph speedily. Climbing towers in big open spaces is no good for him now. Easy to get killed.
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If its a nerf for doldy Its also a buff for giny. Or any person who can do some parkour stuff. For me doldren always was an anti antag raider. My mmr mostly pretty high. And elites there was always ready to fuck you up if you tried to stealth grab them. It also a nice buff to antags. Now raiders kinda lose a bit if they do the murder ball strategy. Map control is pretty important now too. Which is nice. I'm not entirely sure where ppl find antag matches that so hard. After this update antag games are a bit to easy. Even hada 68% game when i was solo dropping. Poor shae. She only got like.... 8 of us
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If its a nerf for doldy Its also a buff for giny. Or any person who can do some parkour stuff. For me doldren always was an anti antag raider. My mmr mostly pretty high. And elites there was always ready to fuck you up if you tried to stealth grab them. It also a nice buff to antags. Now raiders kinda lose a bit if they do the murder ball strategy. Map control is pretty important now too. Which is nice. I'm not entirely sure where ppl find antag matches that so hard. After this update antag games are a bit to easy. Even hada 68% game when i was solo dropping. Poor shae. She only got like.... 8 of us
In low blow with doldren I used to have 3 alephs collected from snipers before most people had 1 aleph collected.
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this thread is about new aleph system. what is your opinion?
Imo I wouldn’t even bother asking SergeyKosinskiy about his stance on anything the devs do, just assume he thinks it’s great…
Map control is pretty important now too.
You can see it in stuff like this, that’s just stuff the devs were making up to try and sell the new dumbass system, so he just regurgitates it here, even though ofc map control is not important, and I doubt any decent player after doing some matches with the new system would buy into that crap.
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Aww right in the feelings White. XD
Not really correct trough, cause i wouldnt do any suggestion then. But that would break your opinion on me and we cant have it right?
You have any problem if i like the system you dont like? Ya wanna talk about it?
And you sure you wanna do decent/not decent player here? How we gonna do it? Who have higher MMR? By scores? PvP this? Alicia 1vs1 on noverra me XD
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we want a fight ! we want a fight ! we want a fight !!
wewantafuckingfiiight !!!
(https://media.giphy.com/media/5MDk34NOY6ili/giphy.gif)
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(https://i.postimg.cc/fbNn8303/Fat-Boxers-Fighting-Funny-Boxing.jpg)
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5 bucks on serg !
(https://media.giphy.com/media/3o85xGRWMlHdGB1vMs/giphy.gif)
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I still don't understand why it needed to be changed. The only answer i've seen is that it's an experimental phase. This begs the question, why does there need to be an experimental phase. Paladins is a vvery succusful F2P and has no item pickups at all.
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And Paladins had how many card system? At least two? I remember sometime ago it changed to something a lot of ppl didn't like it cause it was very close to p2w stuff. And they change it again. And its not like was a long time ago. One or two year max.
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We are not talking about cards. I was just citing an example of a commercially successful game that has no dropping items to pickup, in case MSE reason to have item drop pickups was to get more players and make more money.
No answer to my question, just deflection to other problems other games have for some reason. No one complained about the original aleph system. In fact, it looks like the majority prefers the old system.
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Its an in-game system, just like aleph in raiders. That was changed back and forth in that successful product of yours. And it was changed even after release. How is that not the same situation? I use same Paladins to show you that experimental stages happens in any games. And i even use Paladins after you use them.
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Changes paladins made are irrelevant to the conversation. The point I am making and you are ignoring is that a game can have success and lots of players without dropping items to pickup.
You are conflating two different issues. Saying Paladins changed their card system is not a satisfactory answer as to why Spacelords changed the aleph. Apples and oranges and too many other variables. Has spacelords playerbase exploded due to the new aleph? I don't think so. People complain and did they change it back? And the card system gives small buffs to cooldowns and stuff. It doesn't completely alter the gameplay like the alephs.
Why did they have to experiment and change the aleph. "because paladins changed cards" - unsatisfactory answer. Still i have no answer.
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So what exactly you don't like in new system then? And why there shouldn't be a new system?
Also how about that. Now even low lvl ppl who had troubles dealing with ads before can just run and collect aleph for mission?
How about that its a buff for antags. Now that's first they can grab aleph without going for raiders, they can deny aleph from raiders and finally raiders more or less need to split up they forces to collect aleph making it less possible to go murder ball on antag?
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well that is interesting, but I wish they could fix those issues without taking away the funnest and most satisfying part of the game imo. I don't think that's the reason though. I think they just want to make the game more like super mario brothers because of course everyone loves super mario brothers.
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and finally raiders more or less need to split up they forces to collect aleph making it less possible to go murder ball on antag?
i'm not so sure of that serg.
from what i have seen, as raiders doesn't have to run around to kill elites, they tend to stay more packed than before imo.
well, they did in the majority of my games these days at least.
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i'm not so sure of that serg.
from what i have seen, as raiders doesn't have to run around to kill elites, they tend to stay more packed than before imo.
well, they did in the majority of my games these days at least.
Pretty much, they also have no need to punch them to death, so they just concentrate fire from afar. Having a trigger happy Harec/Shae on the team is good now.
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Well ideally i would give elites old aleph treatment. Punch, get aleph inside. Right now only thing they do is give hp and immune frames.
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Well ideally i would give elites old aleph treatment. Punch, get aleph inside. Right now only thing they do is give hp and immune frames.
I know right. That part was like popping bubble wrap. It felt perfect.