Mercurysteam's Hangout
BARRACKS => Gameplay Feedback => Topic started by: LüB on June 23, 2019, 11:24:28 AM
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Gonna admit, I've been one of those people who were annoyed to no end by the antagonist system. The only fact I liked about it was that it's explained well in-universe. But after almost 100 hours in, It's been growing on me.
And by growing I mean like an incurable parasitic disease whose annoyances I've accepted as a part of my other wise enjoyable life.
I get it, alright? You want your 4v1 pvp and you want it involuntary. Fine, It's your game and I've had worse involuntary 4v1s in Dark Souls anyways.
But if you wanna keep that, can we follow the basic rules of pvp design and level the playing field at least?
Passive skills straight up gives you raw stats just for having played longer, the hero killer upgrade point lets you deal more damage to players and you can get more with higher levels. Do I really need to spell out what that means for pvp?
If a higher level antagonist invade a low level game with a character they can't get in range to grab without instantly being put into critical (hive, ayana, valeria, etc.) then game's done. bullet resistance already means they take less damage, not to mention it takes significant time to kill something with shooting alone. All the antagonist will have to do is hide behind cover stalking the objective. Even if the antagonist can be grabbed, they still have the advantage in punches.
It definitely doesn't help that literally every antagonist will be at 100+ because.....well why the hell wouldn't they be? They know being lower leveled in pvp means being bullied.
No wonder a game of this quality still has mixed steam reviews. If antagonists appeared every game, which I'm guessing is the game's vision once the player base is built up, this game'd be dead within a month due to having zero new players.
Now it's not like I don't understand the desire to build a meaningful progression system, and by god is this meaningful, but simply from a utilitarian standpoint with the goal of keeping the game bloody alive, the playing field must be leveled.
If you want suggestions, here's some, with the best effort put into preserving the sense of progression. Remove the Hero Killer upgrade and make all other damage related upgrades work only on AI opponents. It's gonna be a coding nightmare I'm sure, but it's better than the design nightmare it is now. Do the same with passive abilities too, and make armour work only on AI.
To be honest here, I refuse to believe this never poped up during dev meetings. But still, it'd be nice to send a reminder that the current progression system in regards to pvp is, at best, a ticking time bomb. Best diffuse it now before it becomes a proper bomb that blows up your player growth.
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totally agreed.
these passive pvp bonus are absurd to me too.
i'm not against pvp, i antag pretty often too. but it's still absurd, regardless of the camp you are in by the way.
yesterday a baby antag invaded the game.
he was something like rank 6 or 5, certainly one of his first antag play, and i'm *5, not much but maybe something like 100lvl away from him.
the poor lad was unable to do something.
i had Hive and was stalking him. i could almost run toward him while he was unloading his gun at me, and then plague-slide/punch him, then crack his head open while he was crawling on the floor and... repeat...
don't know how many time i plagued his head off... i was nearly pitying him.
0 merit for me, 0 fun for him.
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Yeah would be nice to get all on same level. Ppl of higher lvl already have weapon forge stats on top of that is a bit to much.
Ammo will be changed back btw tekato, in next patch or one after that.
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I really don't remember much of my beginnings of this game (it's been MONTHS...), but I don't remember it being that bad? Or maybe I was having too much fun playing the game. Either way, "leveling the playing field" is virtually impossible in this game, because of all the variables (and there's ALOT). Take away the passives, the raiders should still have the advantage, cause 4 raiders who atleast semi know what they're doing should win 80%-85% of the time generally. And the inverse of that is the MMR against the raiders and that's a whole other story...
Same with the high/max weapon forge levels, atleast to me, it seems like a small difference in play (as with the passives). I'm level 185 (almost at MAX forge!) and still using Alicia, Hans, and Kuzman's default weapon & not upgraded, and it doesn't feel too underwhelming? Well...I guess once I get MAX forge, I'll really know, but it's feels very minuscule. Someone doing a video by video would be interesting to see...
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hm... well, first alicia's weapon not upgraded can't kill a monster even if you put the barrel in his mouth, so you must be playing real good or have max bonus.
since for the max inner bonus, if i'm not mistaken, it's +100% damage and 50% armor.
so, yes, it is significant.
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Its 100 for melee dmg, so novera is shit on any lvl xD
Ok its not, hatchet. But its to crit dependent
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I really doubt they'll remove their entire progression system.. I mean they can't even change back something as simple as the aleph and ammo drops because they're so stubborn.
Or the entirety of the antag system.
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Or the entirety of the antag system.
there is only 17 missions.
without antag challenge, how much time will you play the game before getting bored ?
being crushed by stupid cheating AI is more repulsive than attractive to me.
i'm not sure people will stay more on the game with no antag system at all.
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They should generally focus more on content and not on stupidities like limited ammo drops, awful aleph drops, sudden death timers, removing player's levels, shortening wounded states, …
Man, they got so many things wrong the last few updates, it's unbelievable! With all these stupid features, they'll be scaring off more players than gaining new ones!
Everything needs time, I understand, but everyone probably wouldn't have enough resources if they were wasted on such annoying features nobody wanted and asked for.
If it's not broken, don't fix it! But maybe I got this quote wrong?
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Or the entirety of the antag system.
there is only 17 missions.
without antag challenge, how much time will you play the game before getting bored ?
being crushed by stupid cheating AI is more repulsive than attractive to me.
i'm not sure people will stay more on the game with no antag system at all.
Really now? Worse than broken metas, game quitting antags, p2p lag that loses you fights you should have won and wasted development resources on balancing a mode that's almost impossible to balance?
How would a game survive on PVE alone you ask? Hmm, dunno, really. Lemmie just ask Warframe, Destiny, Destiny the other one, Borderlands, Borderlands the other one, Borderlands the other other one that's coming out that's apparently great but it's epic exclusive so fuck that one, S.T.A.L.K.E.R, Fallout 3, New Vegas and 4, Payday, Payday 2: Pay Harder, Vermintide, Vermintide 2, Left 4 dead and Left 4 dead 2. Sure some have an optional pvp mode, but hardly anyone plays them and literally no one plays for them. Almost like people don't give a toss about pvp in a game where most of the content is pve.
and that's just the ones with guns in them. Without that particular parameter that list extends to every online co-op game in existence.
You know the whole pvevp thing is the exception and not the rule right?
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They should generally focus more on content and not on stupidities like limited ammo drops, awful aleph drops, sudden death timers, removing player's levels, shortening wounded states, …
Man, they got so many things wrong the last few updates, it's unbelievable! With all these stupid features, they'll be scaring off more players than gaining new ones!
Everything needs time, I understand, but everyone probably wouldn't have enough resources if they were wasted on such annoying features nobody wanted and asked for.
If it's not broken, don't fix it! But maybe I got this quote wrong?
I personally like some of the QoL changes like short wounded states, but 1: it sounds like you replied to the wrong post, and 2: the unfair pvp advantages is about as broken as the goddamn planet itself.
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I have suggested before that they should add a bonus option to select an Antag invasion. Add that to the mission Select screen as an option. If you select that box, you get a 2x reward bonus. Don't want an Antag? Cut the rewards. Add additional bonuses after 5,10,15 Antag queues in a row.
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How would a game survive on PVE alone you ask?
that's absolutly not what i said...
i said, this game has only 17 missions.
so don't be ridiculous, games like warframe, fallout or borderlands have tons of differents missions on differents maps, they are not comparable with this one...
right now, this game only take more than two days to finish because of the lvl requirement...
so of course they can transform it in full pve. but they'll have to make a looooot of new campaigns. and it takes loooot of time, so i'm not sure it's possible right now.
so yes,if they want, they even can tranform it in a race game too, but don't you think that, as your answer, it's a little off topic...?
Worse than broken metas, game quitting antags?
yes.
i'd rather die against a good player or an overpowered equipement while i'm doing my best, than against a cheating AI who "predict" every single action i take.
when you lose you feel totally powerless, like you can do nothing cause the game counter every movement, pop direct in your ass, move, shoot or react at lightning speed, etc, etc.
and consequently when you win, you just feel like the game let you win.
uninteresting in both situations.
Don't want an Antag? Cut the rewards. Add additional bonuses after 5,10,15 Antag queues in a row.
that could be an insteresting idea.
we could even imagine that rare weapons can only be obtained in vs antags missions.
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Being killed by some unbalanced broken build is a lot more repulsive than the AI imo.
How? OP "unbalanced broken build " or not, raiders should still win majority of the time. Stupid/beefed up AI just becomes a complete s***show.
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I have suggested before that they should add a bonus option to select an Antag invasion. Add that to the mission Select screen as an option. If you select that box, you get a 2x reward bonus. Don't want an Antag? Cut the rewards. Add additional bonuses after 5,10,15 Antag queues in a row.
Indeed, have in the past threw out a similar idea as well.. MSE can keep it's core game (chance of antag invasion) and still make it optional. Just cut the gold reward in half and have faction points and rare BPs unattainable if you have it on.
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How would a game survive on PVE alone you ask?
that's absolutly not what i said...
i said, this game has only 17 missions.
so don't be ridiculous, games like warframe, fallout or borderlands have tons of differents missions on differents maps, they are not comparable with this one...
right now, this game only take more than two days to finish because of the lvl requirement...
have you.....played warframe mate? I mean yeah, it has shit tons of nodes, but there aren't many actual levels with different win conditions, and maps in the game don't make enough of a significant difference. 17 missions is quite plentiful.
Even putting all this aside, most games in Spacelords is purely PvE and hardly anyone is crossing their fingers for an antag as the raider. So.....whatever that's keeping the game alive now, it's not the antag mode. So your premise is straight up untrue.
yes.
i'd rather die against a good player or an overpowered equipement while i'm doing my best, than against a cheating AI who "predict" every single action i take.
when you lose you feel totally powerless, like you can do nothing cause the game counter every movement, pop direct in your ass, move, shoot or react at lightning speed, etc, etc.
and consequently when you win, you just feel like the game let you win.
uninteresting in both situations.
......Do you....hear yourself? When you think?
You understand your statement applies to every PvE game out there right? Just because the AI has the ability to predict and counter your every move doesn't mean they do.
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have you.....played warframe mate?
indeed i do.
pretty frequently. valkyr forever <3 ^^
so i suggest everyon to go on that game, and all the game you mentionned by the way, play them, and see if you are showing bad faith or not here...
Even putting all this aside, most games in Spacelords is purely PvE and hardly anyone is crossing their fingers for an antag as the raider. So.....whatever that's keeping the game alive now, it's not the antag mode. So your premise is straight up untrue.
i think you are making your feeling as rule.
as a matter of fact, i do enjoy confronting antag.
and usually i play counter antag characters.
because, no offense hey community, but it appears that 80% of players of this game are retarded children who can't adapt their characters to the mission they're gonna play (ending up with useless short range weapons against unreachable boss for exemple) or the possibility of the antag presence (forgivable for rank -65 and maybe 4, but not below) and then they come and cry here that antags are mean or harass their team to surrender...
so before crying against antags that are "so powerfull", learn to play correctly, stay grouped, adapt to the mission, and focus on reaching objective, or if antag are soooo strong, why don't you just play antag ? and then come back to give us your feedback.
that being said, i'm not really playing the game for the pve. i play the pve to be able to bash the head of antag (or raiders) more efficiently when i fall on them.
but yes, i don't deny that just grinding for new characters in pve can be a motivation too.
Just because the AI has the ability to predict and counter your every move doesn't mean they do.
yes, but in this game it does...
and i'm not the only one telling it. ;)
so either way, you're not playing the same game that we are.
wich explain why you think this game is exactly like an openworld one, like fallout or borderlands...
or, more certainly, i think we have our answer and you are just showing bad faith, so it's useless to argue with people like you.
so yes, you are right, there is absolutly no difference, between this game and marioworld. proof is we can jump in both !
they should definitely add some mushrooms. people like mushrooms. i'm sure they will stick to the game thanks to them.
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(inb4 I haven't studied how to speak english that much.)
I think I am off-topic on here. AND I think someone already said like this.
I don't like to play antags, making me feel guilty(You don't know someone on there just want to chillin with friends or want to have some pve/pvp match). Most times I like to play *against* antags tho, feels good when I assist teammates who's having struggle against them. But I feel it's really stressful to have antag entirely in match *randomly*. I know antags have stress stuffs of their own and I KNOW playing antags is not just easy win, still need to think what they should do(well, honestly. In some maps, it seems not that balanced.)
AND Making the antags optional(I think it's a good option though, adds more rewards(bonus rewards with another currency to buy skins maybe?) when you play against or as antags. Don't reduce rewards for pve players though.) could make the matchmaking time for antags take forever.
So my suggestion is rework the passive skills so low level antags or raiders have a chance to stand up against high level players and make antags system less stressful(to both, if possible). Like adds more rewards for have antags as Raiders and adds special features to antags or to both(antags seems like to gonna have it). I personally likes Quick invasion idea(it's on other thread!) by the way.
P.S(it's really long P.S ooooooo) Spacelords is still fun and feels speical with pure PvE, I can find fun things to do in PvE without PvP. Me? I like to play against AI on high difficulty, and trick AI with stress meter system(which I think it makes PVE feel special). Finding what characters and builds can be effective against Mobs and Elites. Or just chilling and messing around with friends. I can still have fun with in PvP, but I can't have chills unless I KNOW this match will be a PvP match.
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i said, this game has only 17 missions.
so don't be ridiculous, games like warframe, fallout or borderlands have tons of differents missions on differents maps, they are not comparable with this one...
This game has 17 UNIQUE missions (which is already more than Warframe, plus their executions is not as braindead), that combined with the more competent Ai, variety of raiders and weapons come together to provide a much better and more varied experience than Warframe, I got bored out of my mind with Warframe by the time I got a bit over 100h yet when it comes to raiders I am well over 1k+ hours and (other than antags wasting my time) I’m not bored yet, also since I have no interest in this games PVP, most of my time is ofc spent in PVE. The only thing Warframe has is more junk to grind for, but otherwise everything about the game is just copy pasta, and that goes double for its missions and maps.
without antag challenge, how much time will you play the game before getting bored ?
being crushed by stupid cheating AI is more repulsive than attractive to me.
i'm not sure people will stay more on the game with no antag system at all.
Basically this claim is entirely false because of how subjective it is, you get bored without antags, well I get bored with them, that’s why there should be at the very least 2 modes. ppl that like both (but just not all the time) can jump back and forth between them, there is literally no drawbacks and would in the long run, allow the population to grow, since players that don’t want the annoying PVP all the time, would be more likely to stay.
right now, this game only take more than two days to finish because of the lvl requirement...
Good luck with that, I would really like to see a person finish this game in 2 days… and if you are referring to just beating all missions, then that is not “finishing the game” not even close, since that is most certainly not the objective in this type of games.
I have suggested before that they should add a bonus option to select an Antag invasion. Add that to the mission Select screen as an option. If you select that box, you get a 2x reward bonus. Don't want an Antag? Cut the rewards. Add additional bonuses after 5,10,15 Antag queues in a row.
If they add a bit of a reward multiplier for PVP queue, that could be fine (although 2x is too much, should be closer to something like 1.2-1.5x), as long as they don’t lock unique content to PVP, such as weapons, cosmetics and such, and limit it to only slightly increased currency/xp.
They should generally focus more on content and not on stupidities like limited ammo drops, awful aleph drops, sudden death timers, removing player's levels, shortening wounded states, …
Man, they got so many things wrong the last few updates, it's unbelievable!
Sigh… can’t agree more, it’s downright painful to watch…
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This game has 17 UNIQUE missions
yeah, so ? still ONLY 17 missions you can finish in two day without lvl cap (probably one day if you make long gaming session...) and after that you just start doing always the same things.
which is already more than Warframe
no.
- tenno defense missions
- tenno extermination missions
- tenno flag missions
- survival missions
- infiltration missions
- excavation missions
- archwing defense missions
- archwing extermination missions
- archwing flag missions
- search missions
- all the special campaign missions
- capture missions
- rescue missions
- nightmare missions
- also a type of unique and long missions harder than nightmare wich i forgot the name
- pvp arena
- all the craft, not mission but part of the game possibilities.
- all new missions on openworlds planets.
and i did not play warframe for months, so i certainly forgot lot of things and they take places in tons on differents maps...
so come again and tel me that "no, warframe has less thing to do, you will end it quicker than spacelords !"
men... people who never want to admit they are saying bullshit are the more boring...
that combined with the more competent Ai
guess you're talking in WF, cause i have never seen a so utterly stupid cheating AI than in spacelords... so, please... ::)
variety of raiders and weapons come together to provide a much better and more varied experience than Warframe
jesus...
if you don't like warframe it's your right, but stop trying bullshiting me please, i played warframe...
right now there is something like 40 warframes with each their own gameplay.
(i do not count primes in that)
and weapons are countless and a lot offer also different gameplay...
Basically this claim is entirely false because of how subjective it is, you get bored without antags, well I get bored with them
hmhm...
and yet you are still here.
in a pvp game.
playing the same 17 exact missions you have already finished, again and again, while you have absolutly nothing more to gain or improve. and with mean antagonist who always kill you and make you cry about your lost time (if you don't want to lose time don't play video game by the may)
while there is true pve games, far more rich in content... =)
so excuse me if all this babling is not really convincing me. ;)
Good luck with that, I would really like to see a person finish this game in 2 days…
well, me. if there had no level cap...
and yes i'm referring to mission, as i already said.
the rest is grinding to get differents character/weapon. (exactly like in WF... except you won't finish even all the campaign mission of warframe in two days.) ;)
well my opinion is, in pvp games, pvp, create a challenge who make us stay because we want to win.
that's why it's no use to make long games with tons of options in pvp games. because fighting each other IS the game itself. (that's why i'm pestering about all the fighting bugs who happens again and again in this game.
pvp games HAVE TO BE reliable to be really fun.
this one is not : 1/4 of times your character do random weird things in fights who make you fail.
and another 1/4 AI is openly cheating.
so there is nothing fun in that 2/4 of the fights.
anyway, if you think, no, this game could survive without pvp, good for you.
maybe you're right, maybe not, no-one cares and no one will never knows.
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snip
All those warframe “missions” you listed are the copy pasta I meant, they can all be summarized into a literal handful, also the Ai in warframe is brain dead, Ai in raiders is superior and it’s not only because of the potential damage/precision (bloated stats) they can achieve at higher mmr, that also happens, but in general they also react in more varied ways regardless of damage numbers. The hardest missions you can face in the game are not antag missions, not even close, high mmr missions is where the real difficulty and need for improvement is.
All frames end up feeling very similar, are you on a heavy, bulky frame? Well doesn’t matter, you can flip around and ninja dash like any of the light/slim frames, “countless weapons” yea sure… countless copy pasta weapons, most of them just a different skin, which isn’t the case with raiders.
hmhm...
and yet you are still here.
in a pvp game.
Not a PVP game, PVP doesn’t happen on every game, facts…
playing the same 17 exact missions you have already finished, again and again, while you have absolutly nothing more to gain or improve.
As if antagonists bring improvement… you either counter them or they counter you, this is not a pvp game of skill, if you’re looking for that, this is not a good place, pvp in this game is about cheese and exploiting, and most importantly NOT about facing your enemy, the game actively discourages it, any “good” antagonist will not attack head on, they will wait for a raider to be distracted with a mob or they will try to grapple from stealth (which wouldn’t be much of an issue to counter if not for the damn inconsistencies caused by lag). And ill repeat it again here, if you want a challenge, high mmr matches is where you’ll get it.
It’s pathetic watching all these “pvp” players that get their panties in a bunch when ppl suggest an ADDITIONAL pve mode, why? dunno, if you want to pvp do so, most pve players aren’t asking for its removal.
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to the git gud learn to play people MSE already admitted the second protector is to fragile and weak. So you are defending admitted brokenness from the designers.
Just looking at actions and not words of MSE you see they are no interested in striving towards unbrokeness.
If looking for balance do what I did and go to another game. It doesn't matter how well you are writer or how much logic you make, they don't care. They can come on here and tell you they do but they really don't. If you don't mind broken and is still fun for you then enjoy.
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And ill repeat it again here, if you want a challenge, high mmr matches is where you’ll get it.
Meh, when it comes down to it, you're still boringly auto-piloting against the AI. They're is just amped up to BS levels of cheese. Facing antags isn't challenging I agree, since raiders should win 80% of the time, but the cheese fest in higher end MMR matches aren't challenging either. They're amusing for sure though...
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i think you are making your feeling as rule.
and immediately, the guy takes his own feelings as rule, without even trying to hide it:
as a matter of fact, i do enjoy confronting antag.
and usually i play counter antag characters.
brilliant, you played yourself. it's not often that a significant portion of the community fight for PvP mode to be removed in a character based game. it's an empirically observable fact that antag mode is tolerated at best, and you're the exception of the rule.
because, no offense hey community,
a phrase only followed up by outright insults.
but it appears that 80% of players of this game are retarded children who can't adapt their characters to the mission they're gonna play (ending up with useless short range weapons against unreachable boss for exemple) or the possibility of the antag presence (forgivable for rank -65 and maybe 4, but not below) and then they come and cry here that antags are mean or harass their team to surrender...
so before crying against antags that are "so powerfull", learn to play correctly, stay grouped, adapt to the mission, and focus on reaching objective, or if antag are soooo strong, why don't you just play antag ? and then come back to give us your feedback.
First of all, nobody here was crying because antagonists are powerful, if anything the pvp landscape tilts towards raiders as of now. the point here is PvP is unbalanced and heavily favours veteran players, regardless of which side they're on.
The only reason I mentioned removing antag mode is that it's the only source of PvP, and that PvP, with the way this game is designed, will be impossible to balance and always act as a repellent to new players. Just because it's called antag mode doesn't mean the antags are the source of the problem, and anyone who couldn't make that differentiation in their skulls is, frankly, someone I'm ashamed for treating with any degree of seriousness.
From a game design perspective, the antag mode is a ticking time bomb. It's implemented as PvPvE, which means not only do things need to be balanced on the players' side, in terms of characters, weapons, cards, and the cqc system, it also needs to be balanced on the environment side. That means enemy AI, MMR averaging, maps, objectives and spawn locations will also need to be balanced, and balanced in a completely different way than PvE modes on top of that. And AFTER ALL OF THAT, it's asymmetrical PvPvE, which means that asymmetry will also need to be considered. Balancing the first half is hard enough, with soon-to-be 19 characters, each of whom has 5-6 weapons, with more to be added later, and hundreds of cards even without accounting for common counterparts of rares. Adding another dimension on top of that is basically a sure fire way of making sure your PvP is unsustainable long-term.
And let's say MSE is a group of prodigies who can handle all this work and somehow make the game resemble something remotely balanced. All of the development resources spent and will be spent on maintaining that balance could be better spent on developing new content for the game. You will not convince me, or indeed, anyone familiar with the game, that most people treat the game the same way you do. Antag mode isn't what's keeping the game alive, and if the game wants to live, new PvE content is required in the future, and soon.
And as a side note, "Why don't you play those games" is not so much a dickmove as it is a dickhead move. I can easily turn it around towards you and tell you to bugger off back to CS:GO, but I didn't because I at least want to remain reasonable in my argument.
that being said, i'm not really playing the game for the pve. i play the pve to be able to bash the head of antag (or raiders) more efficiently when i fall on them.
Well, why isn't it a shame this game isn't made for you personally and need to keep it self alive with a community that plays differently to you then?
yes, but in this game it does...
and i'm not the only one telling it. ;)
so either way, you're not playing the same game that we are.
wich explain why you think this game is exactly like an openworld one, like fallout or borderlands...
or, more certainly, i think we have our answer and you are just showing bad faith, so it's useless to argue with people like you.
so yes, you are right, there is absolutly no difference, between this game and marioworld. proof is we can jump in both !
they should definitely add some mushrooms. people like mushrooms. i'm sure they will stick to the game thanks to them.
Oh christ you're descending into childish mockery. Wonderful.
AI technically predicts every move the player makes in every game, but never do they counter all the moves the player makes. The key words in my phrase wasn't predict, but counter. If the AI is indeed as broken as you say, you should never be able to cqc a single mob. But we can, can't we? And quite easily too. Fascinating how someone treating this game as a pure PvP game is complaining about AI difficulty, when really, PvP players should have zero difficulty handling AI.
What does open world have to do with any of this again? Those are examples of games people play for PvE, showing you clearly that having antag mode isn't a do or die situation for Spacelords.
And that last strawman....I mean, what do you want me to do? It's not even worth the effort addressing. I'm embarrassed on your behalf for that one, really.
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men, there is what, 10 people who come and give their opinion here ?
and in these 10peoples there is like me who defend pvp.
so one more time you are making your feeling as a rules.
"i'm not capable of defending myself and too lazy to understand why so remove it 'cause if i don't like it no-one has to !!
how self centered it is...?
First of all, nobody here was crying because antagonists are powerful,
yes, you're doing it all the time.
and if you don't, so there is no problem with antag so go play, enjoy and leave us alone, since they are not a problem.
the point here is PvP is unbalanced and heavily favours veteran players, regardless of which side they're on.
and if you were not so self centered, maybe you had seen that i already agreed with that...
PvP, with the way this game is designed, will be impossible to balance
non sens.
of course there is and removing all pvp bonus on weapon and lvl as you mentionned is one of them wich one i already agreed with...
but the more i read you and the more my feeling is, he doesn't want old players to be less brutals againt new players, but he just want to win each time he faces antags to feel strong...
and for that i have only one answer for you, play better.
the game is balanced. well if you are not considering AI...
the only problem would be matchmaking.
and i figure matchmaking problems just comes from numbers of players.
so there is nothing to fix about, except removing th different pvp bonuses.
And as a side note, "Why don't you play those games" is not so much a dickmove as it is a dickhead move. I can easily turn it around towards you and tell you to bugger off back to CS:GO, but I didn't because I at least want to remain reasonable in my argument.
well i'm playing a pvp game, enjoying the pvp part. so i don't why i should leave.
in fact the pvp part is maybe the only one i like... when fights are not bugged or with insane ping at least...
and i'm not passing my day crying about antag who are mean and overpowered people whereas i'm in an asymletrical pvp games.
i'm crying (a lot) about games bugs, wich are intolerable in any games, pve or pvp.
Well, why isn't it a shame this game isn't made for you personally and need to keep it self alive with a community that plays differently to you then?
yeah as is not for you...
and it seems than dev themselves have a different vision of THEIR game than you.
so in the end... it seems their game is definitly more did for ME than you ;)
The key words in my phrase wasn't predict, but counter.
yes and the key words in MY phrase was, "yes, but in this game it does...".
and if you still did not noticed it, as i said, lot of players have, here too, so have a better mmr and you'll understand that one more time you are saying bullshit or just showing bad faith.
for the rest, concerning pvp bonus i already said i agree with you for their removal.
i already agreed to a full AI mode for training too, as there is in all pvp games.
and for the antag presence, stop crying about it and just go train yourself.
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totally agreed.
these passive pvp bonus are absurd to me too.
i'm not against pvp, i antag pretty often too. but it's still absurd, regardless of the camp you are in by the way.
yesterday a baby antag invaded the game.
he was something like rank 6 or 5, certainly one of his first antag play, and i'm *5, not much but maybe something like 100lvl away from him.
the poor lad was unable to do something.
i had Hive and was stalking him. i could almost run toward him while he was unloading his gun at me, and then plague-slide/punch him, then crack his head open while he was crawling on the floor and... repeat...
don't know how many time i plagued his head off... i was nearly pitying him.
0 merit for me, 0 fun for him.
Yeah I think that was me and I was only 25 at the time and you have Antaged me a number of time too and it is NOT fun.
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@sonoz
MSE_Ojuel and MSE_Karen said the 2nd protector was too weak so "git gud" is no make sense.
Spacelords is maybe the most fun game I ever played but there's reason some games have tournements where people travel from across the world to gather for a big cash prize and spacelords doesn't.