Mercurysteam's Hangout
BARRACKS => Bug report & Technical Support => Topic started by: Tekato on October 11, 2018, 08:46:20 PM
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A fistful of sand harec sniped the protector from across the map gg. Seriously when are you going to fix this mission.
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A can't say much regarding the Protector himself but as for the Antag I would of been on him like white on rice.
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But there's no problem here, right? It's all the Raiders fault for losing. There is nothing at all broken about this missions.
/s
I will continue to avoid this mission. Thank you.
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When I said I cant say much regarding the protector I meant that's an issue I cant help with cause yes it is flawed but I stand by my word that the Raiders *could* have prevented it. Relax man, I cant tell if your being "Passionate" or a little bitter. Not that I can blame you, the game can be frustrating.
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A can't say much regarding the Protector himself but as for the Antag I would of been on him like white on rice.
Except you also have to protect him from the mobs of enemies and all he has to do is get 2-3 shots from far away which is easy with the stalk ability and it's dead. Shae can just bewitch everyone and get free shots while invisible. The only counters i see is to bring a sniper yourself and get them first.
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When I said I cant say much regarding the protector I meant that's an issue I cant help with cause yes it is flawed but I stand by my word that the Raiders *could* have prevented it. Relax man, I cant tell if your being "Passionate" or a little bitter. Not that I can blame you, the game can be frustrating.
No man, I'm not bitter with you guys. You aren't doing anything wrong. Videos have been made to try and help people with this mission, and that's a noble thing to do.
Very nice people for doing so.
If you detect bitterness I'ts because I, and others, have had to go through this. And it's got to be changed. Now I don't believe MSE have done this on purpose or their stance on this stage or if they plan on fixing it, so I can't be bitter with them. I'm bitter towards people saying the mission is fine and that it isn't broken. Even if it IS possible to work more harder than any other mission and stop the antagonists, it doesn't mean it's not broken. Just because it's possible doesn't mean it's not unbalanced still. Especially if we can see that other missions don't suffer from the same issues and are EASIER to do. Then the question is for those who say everything is fine; What incentive does a Raider have for doing Fistful of Sand if it won't reward you extra for the additional advantage that is given to the antagonists in this stage? It doesn't, so logically wise players just don't queue for it. No reason to.
I like most the people in this community, you guys are great. Even many who are in favor for PvP. There are a few that are difficult people to deal with, but then so am I. Sorry if you got bad vibes. They're not directed at you for sure.
/rant
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Yeah I'm pretty salty myself today, a lot of dumb things have happened in this game recently. Like some random guy decided to suicide a million times on my one-time faction points mission because he wanted to lower his mmr. I honestly don't think I've ever been this frustrated with a video game before coming to this one.
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I laugh when I see this post on Bug report. Such a salt moment. Shame... better luck next time.
Obviously, Harec outplayed you, but nothing else.
I did not think he could one shot the protector because even aura mortis, at a low forge level can give 272 damage in full charge headshot. (Level 2, Hero killer = 0, Quickshot = 5, Difficulty 25). He needed 3 shots to remove the protector's barrier. 6 shots or more are needed to kill him. So, tell me, how did the protector die?
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I laugh when I see this post on Bug report. Such a salt moment. Shame... better luck next time.
Obviously, Harec outplayed you, but nothing else.
I did not think he could one shot the protector because even aura mortis, at a low forge level can give 272 damage in full charge headshot. (Level 2, Hero killer = 0, Quickshot = 5, Difficulty 25). He needed 3 shots to remove the protector's barrier. 6 shots or more are needed to kill him. So, tell me, how did the protector die?
I didn't think i'd really have to explain this to you but as you can see he was level 10 so his mmr was low and ours was high. That means the game will give us a harder time by giving the protector much less hp and throwing many more stronger AI at us. This means even a low level harec can pretty much 2-3 shot the protector as I previously stated. This takes 0 skill imo but i guess i just need to git gud.
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I laugh when I see this post on Bug report. Such a salt moment. Shame... better luck next time.
Obviously, Harec outplayed you, but nothing else.
I did not think he could one shot the protector because even aura mortis, at a low forge level can give 272 damage in full charge headshot. (Level 2, Hero killer = 0, Quickshot = 5, Difficulty 25). He needed 3 shots to remove the protector's barrier. 6 shots or more are needed to kill him. So, tell me, how did the protector die?
I didn't think i'd really have to explain this to you but as you can see he was level 10 so his mmr was low and ours was high. That means the game will give us a harder time by giving the protector much less hp and throwing many more stronger AI at us. This means even a low level harec can pretty much 2-3 shot the protector as I previously stated. This takes 0 skill imo but i guess i just need to git gud.
Agreed completely. Some people don't understand nuance and context.
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I laugh when I see this post on Bug report. Such a salt moment. Shame... better luck next time.
Obviously, Harec outplayed you, but nothing else.
I did not think he could one shot the protector because even aura mortis, at a low forge level can give 272 damage in full charge headshot. (Level 2, Hero killer = 0, Quickshot = 5, Difficulty 25). He needed 3 shots to remove the protector's barrier. 6 shots or more are needed to kill him. So, tell me, how did the protector die?
I didn't think i'd really have to explain this to you but as you can see he was level 10 so his mmr was low and ours was high. That means the game will give us a harder time by giving the protector much less hp and throwing many more stronger AI at us. This means even a low level harec can pretty much 2-3 shot the protector as I previously stated. This takes 0 skill imo but i guess i just need to git gud.
Agreed completely. Some people don't understand nuance and context.
(https://i.imgur.com/7lWjDiH.png)
There's a lot more that goes into winning or losing a match, on both sides, than just "the player was better" and shooting the protector is a scumbag thing to do.
Players that brag about winning this way are like people who think they are good when they had 10-20% lower MMR than whoever they were fighting against, not realizing the game is giving them a huge handicap in every measurable way.
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Shit is nuts I've lost to Shae and Harec Antagonist b4 now im scared to pick anything other than a Lycus on "fist" i legit pop my shield and stand in front of the protector. Wait for the shot then drop the shield . Pop shield when he's about to shoot wait for shot. Drop shield rinse repeat. It's worked so far a little harder to get with the Shae since she can bewitch me.
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But if such a simple win in the game is possible (shooting old gramps), there will always be players who will exploit that. MSE knows this flaw for so long, it seems they have no problem with it. They prefer to ruin missions that have been fun (In Shock), rather than solving real problems (fixing old gramps in A Fistful of Sand).
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Hi guys!
Regarding your concerns about Fistful of Sand, we have increased the Protector's health by 10%. You'll see the changes applied in a patch that will arrive very soon ;)
Thank you very much for reporting this! I know I always say this, but your feedback is very useful in order to improve the game ;)
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Thank you. Karen.
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It's good that something is being done about this but increasing the protector's health by 10% doesn't sound like it will make much of a difference. A few shots from a weapon like the javelin (maxed out) will still kill him in a few shots. I will report back when the change is in place, but I feel it will still be an issue.
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The system made the protector extra weak because the antag was only level 10 and MMR was most likely very low compared to the Raiders. Again, as a higher level player I stay away from that mission. Haven't touched it for about a month now.
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The system made the protector extra weak because the antag was only level 10 and MMR was most likely very low compared to the Raiders. Again, as a higher level player I stay away from that mission. Haven't touched it for about a month now.
all that gold... Gone
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The only solution I can see here is to restrict certain missions for antagonists, mainly pizza-delivery missions.
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There's a lot more that goes into winning or losing a match, on both sides, than just "the player was better" and shooting the protector is a scumbag thing to do.
Players that brag about winning this way are like people who think they are good when they had 10-20% lower MMR than whoever they were fighting against, not realizing the game is giving them a huge handicap in every measurable way.
Well, he either created a chance to attack the protector without interrupt, or successfully took advantage of the raiders' weakness and absence.
Just like your Hans took advantage against raiders when Breath of Hope Boss stage were full of minions. What is the difference between you take advantage of minions to kill Raiders and kill Protector when you can?
What did you mean by "when they had 10-20% lower MMR than whoever they were fighting against, not realizing the game is giving them a huge handicap in every measurable way."
What do you expect to have the same MMR? Don't you expect the minions are stronger for you to win easier? "Balanced" game for you to exploit the strength of the minions?? So you are not surrounded by 4 raiders everytime you spawn??
Whatever the handicap is, you win to raise your MMR.
You play antag, so you know when is the time to exploit the environment and dynamics of the game. For more, you want to control them.
This antag did great job controlling the dynamics, I believe. And he successfully created enough time to shoot Uru Garu 6 or more shots without interruption.
The system made the protector extra weak because the antag was only level 10 and MMR was most likely very low compared to the Raiders. Again, as a higher level player I stay away from that mission. Haven't touched it for about a month now.
How do you know the amount of life of the protector? You do not play antag. You have never analyzed the system for how much difference the MMR makes the life of minions and the protector. You do not even know the difficulty of the game.
Look, what I know here is, this antag was level 10, so the forge level was 1 or 2 (only 5 points) and his passive (damage reduction) is low, while lv200+ raiders can one shot him.
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What did you mean by "when they had 10-20% lower MMR than whoever they were fighting against, not realizing the game is giving them a huge handicap in every measurable way."
What do you expect to have the same MMR? Don't you expect the minions are stronger for you to win easier? "Balanced" game for you to exploit the strength of the minions?? So you are not surrounded by 4 raiders everytime you spawn??
Now you're just being ignorant to the mechanics that have been discussed at length. Once the MMR of antagonists and raiders becomes greater than 8 or 9 %, the game overcompensates massively on the side that is lower.
So a low MMR antag will get super minions that will curb stomp raiders with 600 health and 150 dmg strikes. A low MMR raider team will have virtually nothing stopping them from 4v1 the antag and objectives because nothing spawns and they all die in 1 hit.
Just 2 small threads to educate you on the issues of largely different MMR:
https://www.spacelordsthegame.com/community/index.php?topic=1583.0
https://www.spacelordsthegame.com/community/index.php?topic=1585.0
10-20% is a huge difference, and I am consistently getting close to 20% difference or higher ever since Spacelords. Pre-spacelords, I still would get unbalanced matches, but 15%, 19%, 22%, these matches would not take place.
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Thanks for the info.
Someone like you playing around 60% difficulty has a different story, but I have seen little compensation due to the difference.
However, I have seen a bump up on difficulty sometime. I do not know if it is due to the compensation or good manipulation of an antag or poor performance of teammates. There maybe some random factors involve than the compensation due to the difference.
I have 3 videos at 42%MMR, which taken recently, patch 11.2. I do not have a video before the Takato's first post on 10/11/2018, so ME might have fixed the issue already.
You can view 2 from the following. I am working on the last, vs lv77 Shae 29% MMR, but downloading RDR2 is my priority.
Spacelords VS LV13 Kuzzman22
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjfDoj_WYyA
Spacelords VS LV95 Harec29
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLqKgGG4mho
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This is the last one. I did not feel that difficulty from minions.
Spacelord VS LV77 Shae29
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmuXOSsFBO4