Author Topic: The Antagonist system need reworked.  (Read 14266 times)

Level9Drow

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Re: The Antagonist system need reworked.
Reply #30 on: April 25, 2018, 07:11:59 PM
Since the game release people in forums are bitching about the core concept that the devs were very clear about since the very beginning - the game is meant to be played in online mode with 4 vs 1 player. Offline is for training and testing.
If you don't like the Raiders of the broken planet then go play God of war 4 or any other game that is "better" or "makes more sense" or "is more fair".

P.S.
to compare Rotb to God of war is same as to compare FIFA to Little Big Planet. Two absolutely different games with nothing in common.

You're not understanding the issue here. The game is effectively targeting two demographics, PvEers and PvPers. Traditionally games that are JUST PvP don't have PvE elements, and games that are JUST PvE, obviously, don't have PvP elements. So when they target their key demographics the buyers aren't supersized or irritated. Traditionally if a game has both PvP and PvE, and if either of these elements are of any worth, the developers choose to seperate them, or give the players the option to partake of either side back and forth at THEIR discression. And naturally so, PvP can be jarring and frustrating for a traditional PvEers (one of their target demographics) and so can only be tolerated in small doses, if at all. This is the wisest choice.

The issue with RotBP is unique because they target both demographics, PvEers and PvPers. Now historically this crowd is like oil and water, there are some people who are both, but these are the exception not the rule. What's happening, regardless of whether MSE or you like it or not, is that PvEers are being drawn to the game, and then tilting and flaming it in reviews. So the fact that they force PvP is pragmatically harmful for the games future, because no matter what anyone lies, Pveers will be drawn to the game, and when they feel the full might of forced PvP they will of course rail against that which they hate the most. This is an unavoidable consequence of forced PvP in a game that attracts PvEers, it doesn't matter whether any of us like it or not no more than it matters that a tornado takes the roof off our house, it's going to happen.

My solution in order to save the game, protect PvPers and PvEers is to seperate the two game modes, perhaps passively though BeerTheBrads "Opt in for priority" system. Why? Because I actually like the PvE aspect, as I was a target demographic for the game, and find the characters very engaging, the mechanics extremely fun, the abilities interesting and the multi-player mission aspect extremely enjoyable, outside the "kick, kick, gun" mook fatality finisher combo. But, PvP fucks it all up.

Why would I compare it to God of War? I'm not saying they're the same type of game. I drew the comparison because of the game philosophy behind the two games, not the games themselves, necessarily. God of War has no micro-transactions and DLC or online play but is massively successful in an age where developers are worshiping at the altar of micro-transactions and online only game. Where this ties into RotBP is that it won't ruin their game to make a better off-line experience other than a dead useless campaign mode where you have 3 mooks per mission and run around all by yourself with absolutely no progression, ongoing progression that is. They can give us some reduced progression offline so that when we are tilted and frustrated with the asshole that just invaded our enjoyable experience we can go offline to still progress and stay playing their game, rather than completely stop playing the game and give it a scathing review piled onto the rest of them, and worst of all, leave the game altogether. It's ok to have a rewarding experience with offline campaign mode. It's not gonna destroy the game, GoW showed this wouldn't be the case.

EDIT: As for playing GoW, I'm a 40 year old parent and am a PC player because I cannot afford $500 for one game. Until they're off to college I won't be as free financially. But that doesn't mean I can't appreciate the game from a distance. And I happen to like THIS game, thank you very much.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2018, 07:27:48 PM by Level9Drow »

Whitebleidd

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Re: The Antagonist system need reworked.
Reply #31 on: April 28, 2018, 01:49:03 AM
I already asked for this on steam, but since I’m not sure how much the devs scan those forums I’ll add my voice here, please add an option to queue PVE, I am sick and tired of not being able to enjoy the game due to the antagonist system, sometimes u get lucky and have 4-5 matches in a row without an antagonist and the game shines, I’m not saying remove it but let ppl that don’t want a to be a part of it relax and enjoy the game.

Level9Drow

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Re: The Antagonist system need reworked.
Reply #32 on: April 28, 2018, 02:08:34 AM
I already asked for this on steam, but since I’m not sure how much the devs scan those forums I’ll add my voice here, please add an option to queue PVE, I am sick and tired of not being able to enjoy the game due to the antagonist system, sometimes u get lucky and have 4-5 matches in a row without an antagonist and the game shines, I’m not saying remove it but let ppl that don’t want a to be a part of it relax and enjoy the game.

Or the opposite; you'll get 3 or 4 games in a row with antagonists, and you just quit playing after them because you don't have the patience or stomach for another antagonists invasion. It actually brings me down and makes me want to play LESS. Even if we win.

Whitebleidd

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Re: The Antagonist system need reworked.
Reply #33 on: April 28, 2018, 02:20:57 AM
Or the opposite; you'll get 3 or 4 games in a row with antagonists, and you just quit playing after them because you don't have the patience or stomach for another antagonists invasion. It actually brings me down and makes me want to play LESS. Even if we win.

Yep I’m on that spot right now, was planning on having a nice afternoon of raiders, but after a couple antagonist matches I’ll just quit for a while, and I agree it’s not even about winning, win or lose its just annoying.

Level9Drow

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Re: The Antagonist system need reworked.
Reply #34 on: April 28, 2018, 02:42:48 AM
I cut my quoted matches i stated in half if they're losses. Because the rewards are even worse and you're already tilted because some guy just reduced your rewards. So two matches and I'm done for the night.

Now here's the thing that may happen over the long term, a sort of attrition. The more this happens the more you get those moments where you are about to sit down and play the game after work but then you think, "Shit, I might get an antagonists or two. I just got off work, I don;t know if I want to deal with that annoying bull sh**. Maybe I'll just play tomorrow when I have more patience." And the more antagonist you get the more the "attrition" of your patience that it will slowly erode, and you will say "I won't play tonight." more often until you stop playing altogether.

This is what happened to me with Overwatch, slowly i got sick and tired of the PvP aspect, and mostly the toxicity. And I would play Comp less, then I would stop playing comp at all and then just play arcade and just do my placements for comp, then I wouldn't even care about placements and just play arcade and a little more verses AI, then I would play less and less arcade and just more AI. The pretty soon it was all just AI matches, because I no longer had the patience for PvP. But AI matches are all the same 12 heroes, they haven't expanded, and don't reward much, and most of all, you can't get your weekly loot boxes from playing verses AI. So even this wasn't rewarding enough. So I just quit.

I'm playing it some more because of the new PvE event, it's really fun. But this will be done by the end of the month and then I will leave. And this DIDN'T cause me to spend money on loot boxes either, because what do I care for new skins if I'm not really going to play after this month?

I'm hoping this game won't go that same direction of slowly losing interest because of PvP and slowly losing that enjoyment and no longer finding you can tolerate PvP anymore.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2018, 02:56:05 AM by Level9Drow »

XjabberwockieX

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Re: The Antagonist system need reworked.
Reply #35 on: April 28, 2018, 03:07:12 AM
In my opinion, as someone who isnt really into tha antagonist mode either, it is actually more fun when an antagonist joins if im in a 4 person team and we can really get after them. I try to imagine that if we can smash this lv.30's face in repeatedly they may not ever want to be an antagonist again. This does not happen when antagonists like Lorddraco or Alma show up however. Some players really are a cut above and have me evaluating whether or not im cut out for this game lol.

Oxnardo

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Re: The Antagonist system need reworked.
Reply #36 on: April 28, 2018, 10:04:45 PM
Since the beginning I never thought the antagonist system was meant to be balanced... like come on, why would you ever think that?

But I do agree it should be changed so it can be less stressful for both sides, many players complain about this system on both sides.

Also... i personally don't like playing as the antag, and i find it bothersome  that you are forced to play that role or else you get exp penalty (via equilibrium).
« Last Edit: April 29, 2018, 01:40:25 AM by Oxnardo »

reaperofsorrows7

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Re: The Antagonist system need reworked.
Reply #37 on: May 02, 2018, 08:01:11 AM
What about this idea.
The antagonist has a certain amount of lives and when they are all lost they will be kicked from the game, but will still be rewarded somewhat. The amount of lives is up for debate.
After which there will be a grace period where there is no antagonist, but the reward increase will remain. once the grace period is done another antagonist can join in. Think of it as a modified version of dark souls invasion system.
Just an idea, i hope it will spark some better ideas down the road.