Quote from: PraxxtorCruel on November 28, 2018, 06:10:49 AM

Quote from: MSE_KarenHB on November 27, 2018, 12:28:32 PM

Hi everyone!

Our intention when we created this new system was being honest with the player. We want to first show him or her the nature of Spacelords. That means cooperate together using all your resources to complete a mission and defeating the Antagonist.

Once the player understands the mechanics, he/she can enjoy the training mode and practice to improve his/her stats. I know we have said this many times, but the core of Spacelords is the Antagonist feature and we would love for all the players to experience it, at least once.

You really expect players to stick around until they understand the mechanics to fully enjoy the game when it is nothing but infuriating with an antag invasion that leads to absolute hopelessness and then noobs in mentor matches who cant even dent an enemy due to their low level. Seriously?
Since i joined this game about a month back, almost every antagonist match the raider team was wiped out. When an antag joins its either solely focus on the antag to stand a chance or get annihilated trying to complete mission objective. That is not fun. I dont see where the developers are getting their data that the antag system is actually balanced. I find the game overwhelmingly favours antags and you dont even need to be good to defeat a team of raiders. Melee is so ridiculously overpowered to the point that my experience of antag matches is that most solely rely on that and it works. My experience has been nothing but negative anytime an antag joins. If anything you the developers will spout about how great your antag system is but if so why not add optional antag invasion with increased rewards?. Thats right you wont because barely anyone would actually opt for an antag invasion. Ive been in countless lame antag matches and mid-high level players completely give up just wanting the match to end by surrendering so they can play a PVE match with a team of raiders. I feel as if you guys are completely out of touch. The core gameplay is great but even that cant overcome the frustrations that i have with this game. Theres a reason a game with great gameplay like this is not doing as well as it could. Lastly you are driving away countless amount of beginners because you dont make the mentor matches easier. 75%  of the time the noob quits midway cause the mobs are too difficult for them.

You have to realize that while you might make the excuse that if 4 raiders stick together they can overpower an antag and win that doesnt actually happen. Youve based the antag system on 4 raiders banding together to fight the antag with support of his AI companions and at times mission objectives with time limits that further complicate things and expect the team of 4 raiders to manage it? You forgot the most important problem. Players dont stick together and sure as hell dont work together consisting of a bunch of randoms. If friendly fire was on they would probably kill each other regularly.

Hey there, My name's is Hernan and I'm a technical game designer working on the game.

What Karen commented--putting new players into real co-op matches instead of single player matches--, is a decision we made taking into account data we've been gathering from players' matches over the last year.

Just like you, we believe players' first matches are really important, but one must not forget they should also work as an honest display of what the game's about, including its assymetric semi-competitive nature.

About the whole Antagonist issue, we will be releasing a new State of the Game soon. We'll be sharing some of the data we've been collecting, and explaining to you guys some of the whys and hows of the system. I hope that clears some of your concerns.

Hey Hernan. Want to start of by saying that you and your team made a great game. There are just some things that i feel hold the game back as ive explained. I will be eagerly awaiting news on the game.

Oy vey. I understand peoples frustrations with the Antagonist system it can be broken at times. But please tell me how is it other players have such a hard time dealing with an Antag and i dont? How is it my games are so different from theirs that they would call for the Antagonist system to be removed or made optional? But before you answer let me give you a little insight on how i play the game.

When i jump on Spacelords I check to see what Bps are available and which ones have very high gold and faction rewards.  I play as a raider when try to obtain my daily rewards and when completed ill switch up and play as an Antag for a few games. I run in to my fair share antags. I win some i lose some, but i have a good time. I get that some of the player base doesnt like PVP but its not like they arent skilled players. So what reason could you give me other than "you dont like PVP" to get rid of the Antagonist system.

Further more Every person that dislikes both the Antgonist system and mentor matches only wishes to  get rid of it by making it possible to opt out of both. Yet they never offer up any solutions to try and fix the current system. Half these problems could be solved with a solid form of communication between players. The prompt system doesnt work. If players (both vet and rookie) could communicate more clearly, coordinating against antags and teaching rookies would be so much easier.

Right now we have raiders suiciding or surrendering relatively early when an antag invasion happens all because they want to team up with raiders to enjoy the pve content without an antagonist. The proposal to add optional antag invasion is so those that want a matchup like that can find others whom also want it. Why would you want the system to offer no option when it is clear lots of people dont like it. By not offering an option you force players to either surrender immediately or suicide so the game is over as fast as possible. If you like competition so much why are you against an optional mode? You do realize by offering an option of opting out means youll be matched with others who are very competitive like yourself? While the rest of the population enjoys the PVE content. Some here are so insistent about how great the antag system is but if thats the case and you believe many enjoy it then why are you not willing to add an opt out mode for only 4vsPVE. To me it seems pretty straightforward. I have unfortunately quit the game as its no longer for me. Maybe once upon a time when the population was healthy and the teams were balanced it worked but not anymore. Just because someone wants opt out pvp doesnt mean theyll never try the antag mode later down the line. Sometimes its best to offer alternatives instead of driving away players.

As for why you find it easy? It could be a multitude of reasons. Whats your level? If high why not start as a new player to understand the frustrations that we experience being vetted against high level antags. Its easy for the veterans to downplay everything we say because you lot are well equipped with insane passive skills, high forge weapons and faction cards that make you unstoppable.

This game cant survive on veterans alone. It needs new players to join but with the incredibly difficult mentor matches and the high lvl antag invasions it drives them away as helplessness sinks in watching yourself getting pummeled in a blink of an eye. Thats not challenging its GOD mode.

You want my suggestion for a fix? Okay here goes. Make it so that when a match is found with an antagonist invasion equalize both parties passive skills and gun damage so its more to do with skill. Example matchup which i had recently.

Raider 1: lvl 65
Raider 2: lvl 64
Raider 3: lvl 35
Raider 4: lvl 150

Antagonist: lvl 557

Before the game even passed the antagonist invasion screen the lvl 35 quit. So us 3 loaded into the game. We were pinned down from the moment it started. The combination of the AI and the antag made it absolutely futile. The level 150 began suiciding to end the game quickly. One other player joined in and that was it. On the other hand if the system took the combined numbers of both teams with attributes like passive skills and forge lvl weapons etc and equalized the playing field during the match im sure people would be more positive about it. Although now this game is simply a feeding ground for high level players whom think that anyone complaining doesnt like pvp.

Another example

Raider 1: Lvl 68
Raider 2: lvl 66
Raider 3: lvl 12
Raider 4: lvl 4

Antagonist lvl: 61

You may say this seems right but thats not actually the case. While the first 2 raiders have a more equal chance of defeating the antag obviously dependent on Ai ability due to MMR the 3rd and 4th players stand very little chance og going toe to toe. On the other hand if it artificially increased everyones level and forge lvl to equalize the field yet again the matchup would be more reliant on skill and every player would have a fighting chance. 2 lvl 60s against an antag lvl 60 may seem like its favouring the raiders but incorporate the number of ai mobs and time limited missions and suddenly the antag has the edge as the 3rd and 4th raider are too weak to even deal with mobs leaving the two lvl 60 raiders overwhelmed by mobs giving easy victories to the antag.
This also gives noobs a good fighting chance at pvp as the damage output is leveled across the playing field.

Voice chat is not the answer. Not everyone wants to do that. The most plausible solution is to make the antagonist system optional. Increase rewards for those who dont mind an antagonist invasion. Even when my team win against antagonists im still left feeling unimpressed. All that effort for what? I very much enjoy the PVE aspect and so do 2 of my mates i roll with. The forced PVP is killing it for us. The problem is there is too many high lvl players enjoying antagonizing because they know they get in matchups where theyre unstoppable. I didnt join this game to get floored by antags 3+ times my level. It ruins the experience. The PVE is truly fun but the PVP is unbalanced and an absolutely rage inducing experience. You have a gem of a game here but i feel the antag system lets it down which making me consider moving to another game. I feel as if this game is reaching a crossroads. They either do something about it or all youll have is a bunch of high lvl antags searching indefinitely for antag matches that dont exist as the raiders have all moved on.