Mercurysteam's Hangout
BARRACKS => Suggestions => Topic started by: EliteRider21 on September 21, 2018, 03:43:26 AM
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I know it may go agianst what the game is supposed to be but if not, cool.
Now hear me out here, i'm a guy that doesn't like PVP these days, i'm more of a PVE kind of player. Everytime i get an antag, it's anything but fun for me, i don't hate games having PVP because it's always separated from the PVE modes, but i do not like being forced to play PVP while i'm playing PVE. Another thing is that i'm not good with the melee system (i'm a button masher) so i can't win a single melee fight unless it's someone that's low level who doesn't know how to fight.
Now i'm not saying i want the antagonist system gone, because i know some of you likes it and that's good, but i don't like when i'm forced to deal with PVP, i've also heared Dark Souls games on PS4 and Xbone now has something similar which is called invaders and has the option to have them come in or not.
basically, i'd like the option to not encounter antags, i don't enjoy forced PVP mixed in PVE, i don't find it fun what so ever mainly because i can't fight any players that knows how to melee because of my damn mashing habits and my character not wanting to dodge for some reason if i get punched, and they mostly pick the stupidly overpowered raiders...
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Here's a thought, How about a On/Off Button in the adventure menu? Turn it on, you'll randomly get Antags like usual. Turn it off and regardless someone in your team would have it on or not, Antags are kept out, making Mentor matches safe for new players. Antags needs to be kept out of Mentor matches no matter what though.
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Blasphemy! You MUST like it. You're not supposed to be here to have fun, you are here to provide prey and entertainment for PvPers. You aren't here to progress, you are here to facilitate others desire to ruin your day. The reason you get rewards is so you can grow accustom to a steady stream of progress so it stings more when the antagonists takes your reward from you, when you've wasted your 20 to 30 minutes of enjoyment and tilt and become angry the antag is happy. They like ruining your day, this is why you are here. Optional PvP, pshhhhh, yea right. Just for that you're going to get a level 250 antag with maxed out Armor, Resistance and Brute Force and a weapon with Hero Killer and Caliber maxed out in forge level, with RARE cards that only a level 100+ player can get specifically designed to kill players. If you quit the game, good, the antagonists players would say, "PvP is too much for you bruh, go play Hello Kitty Island Adventure you care bare. This game is only for the hard core!" (psst, but what will they do when all of their prey leave the game?)
/s
I hope you get me as an antagonists, man. I am level 300+ and the AI should be easy. I will help you with aleph and carry the objective for you past enemies who won't shoot me. Because all I need is affinity for cards and God knows how much I hate getting invaded by antagonists, I don't want to ruin your PvE experience, this is coming from another PvEers "care bare" like yourself. I hope they get enough feed back from people like me and you to encourage them to make a change.
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Level9Drow, you invaded one of my missions rcecently with a Rak Mayura in the Hanging by a thread mission. I was really expecting a hard won fight in my hands, i was kind of excited but you chose to sit it out and just watch which bummed me out a little. I was H.I.V.E., they had Kuzzman, Ginebra and Ayana Kwena. To be honest when I saw your level and saw my team, I was pretty sure i was going to lose my match, I didnt have any stakes in it so I didn't care.
I suppose im one of the who are in favor of the antag as a raider.
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Level9Drow, you invaded one of my missions rcecently with a Rak Mayura in the Hanging by a thread mission. I was really expecting a hard won fight in my hands, i was kind of excited but you chose to sit it out and just watch which bummed me out a little. I was H.I.V.E., they had Kuzzman, Ginebra and Ayana Kwena. To be honest when I saw your level and saw my team, I was pretty sure i was going to lose my match, I didnt have any stakes in it so I didn't care.
I suppose im one of the who are in favor of the antag as a raider.
If it was a blueprint mission you would have a very different opinion. No one is saying that fighting an antag cannot be fun, only that it needs to be the correct set of circumstances for it to be enjoyable. Right now fighting an antag is less rewarding than fighting the AI with the only exception being if the antag doesn't put up a real fight. That's not a good condition to have so the entire system just fails.
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Level9Drow, you invaded one of my missions rcecently with a Rak Mayura in the Hanging by a thread mission. I was really expecting a hard won fight in my hands, i was kind of excited but you chose to sit it out and just watch which bummed me out a little. I was H.I.V.E., they had Kuzzman, Ginebra and Ayana Kwena. To be honest when I saw your level and saw my team, I was pretty sure i was going to lose my match, I didnt have any stakes in it so I didn't care.
I suppose im one of the who are in favor of the antag as a raider.
Right, you are correct. And you cannot be wrong with your desire for PvP either. I don't blame you. I am forced to be there, however, and I don;t like PvP. The only reason I was there is to get my antagonists affinity, despite the reduction of rewards they put on peaceful antagonists. I imagine they were trying to make it less rewarding to force people who don't like to PvP to play as antagonists. But we still get an ok amount of XP which means two lost games equals enough for antagonists affinity. You have to realize I don't want to be there in the first place. Sometimes if the players are low enough level I even help them complete the mission, as it does us both a favor and get's the mission done faster. This means I can get on with playing as Raider, which I prefer.
I also do this to keep my MMR low. There is no other way to lower MMR, outside a surrender squad, that doesn't involve suiciding with team mates who want to play the mission. I don't want to suicide on a normal PvE game with random other players, especially with no antagonists. So I peaceful antag to lower MMR and lose, while providing a benefit to other players. Most players are very pleased by this, so I don't think I'm doing anything unfair or malicious. For those that don't like it, would you rather I pretend to fight and be a crappy weak antag and OOPS I didn't shoot you enough times to kill you, OPPS I didn't beat you and CQC, now you got my aleph. I mean, do you want the illusion that I want to be there?
I also know what it feels like to lose to an overpowered antagonists who is WAY higher level and spend 30 minutes only to lose, waste time and progression and have no entertainment or fun and tilt. I don't want to put others through that. Even if there are some people who don't mind it, many do.
Finally, I can't be a hypocrite. I can't say I hate PvP, forced to play antag for affinity and then go and smash a bunch of low level players. I have before, when the game was Raider of the Broken Planet and it was much newer, and I felt TERRIBLE, so I didn't like doing that to others, especially new low level players. So I stopped. And it would look silly if I didn't peaceful antagonists.
I wish this was different, man, I really do. If they made PvP optional everyone would get what they want? But for some reason they seem pretty adamant to keep forcing people into it to the detriment of some.
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This is why i like people i antags like you, i do the same thing by going as Ginebra in cougar form just mindlessly running around and see if they can catch me.
But yeah, we really need an option like an ON/OFF switch in the adventure menu or something, cuz i'm really getting sick of encountering high level antags picking the most OP characters and weapons.
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where were u guys when i need to get in. get my last run for barrier and go home. everytime i'm on my last run "antag has invaded " cus i see my team are lv 20> and the antag is a dike...always spawning on hectic mod and aoe dmg maps and using spawn invisibility and invulnerability to grab the noobs on objective.
Ps any of y'all know why some times the hit detection on grab go mad. sometime u grab first and u go thru them and then they grab u OR ur strike input jus "happens" to not occur or worst yet when they grab u midair from ur raised platform
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We just need a pop up notification that says antagonist match , like how it does for mentor matches. You ether accept or cancel. Problem solve.
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That sounds like a good idea, actually. But if they did it they would have to show what incentive there is to play against an antagonists. But, they don;t have any additional rewards for playing antagonists, which they don't. But if they DID have additional rewards they could display this on that pre-mission screen to entice a Raider if they want to join or not.
But I see a lot of problems occurring concerning player perception. If a player sees both Mentor Bonus AND Antagonists Reward, meaning you are about to get into a game with new players with an antagonist invasion, I think many players would decline the game, as this is virtually a guarantee of entering a lost game.
I also see an issue that there may be more people that do not like antagonists than people think. since it's forced we can't really gauge how many people are in favor of it, many of us are putting up with or tolerating it, but don't actually like it. And so there's is a possibility that poor antagonists may never get a game going because raiders would constantly keep declining the game (which would say more as to why it's not optional than anything).
I think there should be a separate queue for Raiders who want to participate in PvP. This option should not be hidden away in the options menu, but made apparent within the Adventure screen showing the player what extra rewards they can get if they choose to accept PvP. if done this way then only people who want to PvP would be there and the Antagonists would ALWAYS get people who want to fight them and engage in PvP. They wouldn't get a declined game all the time because they are found out. This would also allow players to un-queue for this if they get tilted and want to go back to reduced rewards to take a break.
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We just need a pop up notification that says antagonist match , like how it does for mentor matches. You ether accept or cancel. Problem solve.
This would at least be a good place to start, and you could know if it was a mentor match with an antag. Sadly, they could even give us +20% gold and affiliation and most of us would still decline.
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We just need a pop up notification that says antagonist match , like how it does for mentor matches. You ether accept or cancel. Problem solve.
This would be better than what we have now (which is nothing), but ppl cancelling queues is already a pretty big annoyance, having a pve/pvp toggle somewhere would be more user friendly imo.
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The problem is that one of the things that are part of the antag mode is that the raiders don't know about the antag and this one can see what they choose and choose accordingly... this will be lost if the raiders knows that an antag will be coming.
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I love going up a good antagonist and playing as the antagonist it's the main reason I'm still with this game. I'm fine with changes cuz somethings are way imbalanced sometimes for raiders and sometimes for antagonist. Also majority of missions when you get salty at losing to a antagonist look at your team and it's composition. If your going to have a no option for antagonist you should get hit hard in the rewards section for opting out those who participate in pvp should always have the superior rewards.
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I love going up a good antagonist and playing as the antagonist it's the main reason I'm still with this game. I'm fine with changes cuz somethings are way imbalanced sometimes for raiders and sometimes for antagonist. Also majority of missions when you get salty at losing to a antagonist look at your team and it's composition. If your going to have a no option for antagonist you should get hit hard in the rewards section for opting out those who participate in pvp should always have the superior rewards.
You are entitled to your opinion, even though it is wrong. Why would you penalize the player for playing the game against the AI like they can now? If anything you want to reward them for fighting an antagonist to make it something players actually want to do. It's the carrot on the stick, but you don't beat them with the stick if there is no carrot. It's all about perception and if you give players a choice they will always be happier than if you forced that choice on them (even if they picked the one you wanted anyway).
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I love going up a good antagonist and playing as the antagonist it's the main reason I'm still with this game. I'm fine with changes cuz somethings are way imbalanced sometimes for raiders and sometimes for antagonist. Also majority of missions when you get salty at losing to a antagonist look at your team and it's composition. If your going to have a no option for antagonist you should get hit hard in the rewards section for opting out those who participate in pvp should always have the superior rewards.
WRONG! You give them EXTRA rewards for PvP, you do not PENALIZE them for not choosing PVP. Classic bully PvPer right here.
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Bully? 98 percent of the comments on this forum that have something good to say about pvp has you complaining right after. It's like you think if you spread your complaints in enough threads you'll get the changes you want. also ran into you recently in a mission where you did nothing as antag one change they should do is idle players get nothing
I love going up a good antagonist and playing as the antagonist it's the main reason I'm still with this game. I'm fine with changes cuz somethings are way imbalanced sometimes for raiders and sometimes for antagonist. Also majority of missions when you get salty at losing to a antagonist look at your team and it's composition. If your going to have a no option for antagonist you should get hit hard in the rewards section for opting out those who participate in pvp should always have the superior rewards.
WRONG! You give them EXTRA rewards for PvP, you do not PENALIZE them for not choosing PVP. Classic bully PvPer right here.
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I've had about enough of this damn antag system... I kept encountering the same scummy ass russian antag just praying on newbies on no reservation as god damn Doldren, always punching out of his damn ability! This is just why we need a switch, so we don't have to deal with that shit, plus everytime i played that mission, the connection was so bad and the scumbag was perfecly fine to the point on the second run i just quited out, then my game kept crashing everytime i get to the main menu... I swear if that's how you're banned and i can't play Spacelords on PS4 anymore... I'm reinstalling to see if it'll fix it. But seriously, antags needs to be kept out of mentor matches or we need an ON/OFF switch for antags that's on by default for new players, i'm really getting sick of this damn system and those scummy antags...
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You guys honestly need to stop complaining about the Antag system. It's not always balanced in the Antags favor. There have been numerous times where the AI has not beneficial. Playing as an antagonist I have seen the AI be as dumb as rocks and not do anything to players or be so few that it's a ghost town. I have played as a raider with no Antag and been demolished by AI becasue they were so coordinated. I then play the same mission with an Antag and it be significantly easier.
If you choose to switch off the Antag system you should get reduced rewards than a player willing to go into an Antag match.
This system has been around since the beginning of the game. I honestly believe if they gave the player a choice, more than half of the player base would leave it off. Something with mentor matches. But suspect that 75% of player would opt out mentor matches.
This game was based on a pvevp model its like Destiny Gambit or Left dead Vs mode. I honestly hope MSE doesn't give players because some of you don't like losing or don't like changing ypur playstyle. This game is about teamwork if you are off by yourself expect to get picked off by the enemy or an Antag.
Again I speak from experience. I'm lvl 116 in game. I have witnessed from both sides of the equation. I have been an Antag and have been completely obliterated and plenty of times returned the favor. I have played matches where players have pulled victory right out their asses. Becasue at some point they learned how to work together and watch each other's back.
I'm not debating there are balance issues but not all of the blame should fall on MSE. There are scrub players out there then there are skilled ones. And in between that we got trolls. Learn how to play this game correctly, learn from your mistakes and change your play style. I promise you won't win all ypur matches but you will win most of them. Nobody likes losing but don't go to the game devs telling them that their game is too hard for YOU and tell them to change it to better suit YOU
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@Ac3_face
I'm curious, but how would you ever be able to speak for anyone but yourself? Of course players are telling the devs what is best for themselves.
Also, if you were to reduce the rewards for opt-out, non-antag matches, what would be left to even call a reward?
It is interesting that you admit the vast majority would prefer non-antag matches, yet you believe MSE sticking to their original intent is somehow a benefit for the game. Isn't having more active players a better outcome?
It sounds like you know the answers to these problems but you would rather white knight than admit the truth of the game's current situation.
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They could change the reward system couldn't they? Wpuldnt it be easier to just change how much gold and faction points we get at the end?
Now I'm no white knight I just legit like the mechanic. It adds spice to the game. The reason I don't see a need for a toggle is becasue it's not like an antagonist shows up on every mission you have good day and you have bad ones. You can play a whole day and only get 3 Antags missions and then some days you get like 10. The PVEVP model has something for everyone. You got on missions you fight against the enemy and every so often you get a mission with an Antag. It's not a horrible experience. You are just upset becasue you lost or maybe you won but didn't get that blueprint you wanted. You're frustrated I get it. But are you honestly saying you wouldn't get bored of this game if all you did was play the same missions over and over, always winning. I know I would. I feel if they changed the Antag mechanic it would be a different game from what they originally set out to make. And don't think Antags have all the fun. We get frustrated too. The imbalance goes both ways
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They could change the reward system couldn't they? Wpuldnt it be easier to just change how much gold and faction points we get at the end?
Now I'm no white knight I just legit like the mechanic. It adds spice to the game. The reason I don't see a need for a toggle is becasue it's not like an antagonist shows up on every mission you have good day and you have bad ones. You can play a whole day and only get 3 Antags missions and then some days you get like 10. The PVEVP model has something for everyone. You got on missions you fight against the enemy and every so often you get a mission with an Antag. It's not a horrible experience. You are just upset becasue you lost or maybe you won but didn't get that blueprint you wanted. You're frustrated I get it. But are you honestly saying you wouldn't get bored of this game if all you did was play the same missions over and over, always winning. I know I would. I feel if they changed the Antag mechanic it would be a different game from what they originally set out to make. And don't think Antags have all the fun. We get frustrated too. The imbalance goes both ways
When did I ever say I was upset? Don't direct your emotions or justifications on me. The simple fact is that not having antags in mentor matches is a win-win scenario as it makes them desirable and benefits new players. Additionally, giving better rewards in antag matches makes them a benefit instead of a statistical loss that they are now, even when you win.
There is no crying over loses involved with these facts. The antag system is poorly implemented in its current form and needs to be improved and my goal is to suggest ways to make not only the antag system better, but the entire game.
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It's not about winning or losing... I've lost plenty of matches with no antagonist because the AI enemies can be very competent and difficult. Antags imo are just annoying and most of the time abuse/exploit in order to do anything they can to win. But honestly I don't care what they do with this game anymore as I have already quit. but I'll still check the forums once in a while to see if they change anything that could make me come back.
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Antags on mentor matches is a little unfair. I'm won't dispute they could ease up on the rookies. But I think streamlining communication between players would help a lot with rookies. Communication now is horrid. But I am completely against making Antag matches optional
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Antags on mentor matches is a little unfair. I'm won't dispute they could ease up on the rookies. But I think streamlining communication between players would help a lot with rookies. Communication now is horrid. But I am completely against making Antag matches optional
And that's entirely the problem since you have decided to refuse an option before seeing if would improve the game. There are several methods MSE could use to make antags optional and still improve the experience for antags.
At least in its current form playing as an antag provides more negatives to the community than it does positives and that is why it is such a hotly debated issue. My goal is to make playing against an antag a benefit for everyone, but making it optional would be a great first step in maintaining a larger community.
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I just surrender or suicide when I see an antag that is farming low level players. I don't even care anymore, I really don't. I have no time to waste on this ALREADY slow grind with an antag to cause my meager rewards to be reduced to nothing. I got to get OUT of that mightmare as fast as possible and back into normal games. Is it kind of shitty? Yea probably. I don't give a shit because I think forced PvP is kind of shitty. Surrendering and suicides are erely a symptom of poor design.
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I do enjoy the antag system. I don't really try hard as antag though, and instead just make myself a sort of mini-boss to be dealt with here and there occasionally. It's fun to actually play it like the bastard that shows up to be a problem, not a team-wiper, and still get rewards out of it. However, it definitely has it's issues.
IF YOU LOOK AT NOTHING ELSE, DEVS, LOOK AT THIS:
MENTOR MATCHES/BELOW LEVEL 10 MATCHES NEED TO BE IMMUNE TO ANTAGONIST INVASION. FOR F*CK'S SAKE THESE NEWBS CAN'T EVEN PUT THEMSELVES IN THE ANTAG POSITION!
FIX THE LEVEL/MMR SPREAD BETWEEN WHAT MISSIONS ANTAGS ARE ALLOWED TO INVADE- DO NOT LET THEM INVADE MORE THAN 50 LEVELS 20% APART. FOR F*CK'S SAKE, LET THESE BEHEMOTHS FIGHT EACH OTHER INSTEAD OF THE LEVEL 5'S, YOU'RE PUTTING CHIHUAHUAS AGAINST GODZILLA
My first problem with the Antagonist system is the fact it can land in the lap of newbies that have absolutely no idea what the heck is going on, and no gear to deal with it. I mean that in the strict sense- I'm in a mentor match, and the level 1's-9's suddenly see "level 292 antagonist has invaded your mission!"? They cannot even interact with the antagonist system themselves until level 10, and may not even be informed of it until then. How is this in any way fair to the new player, OR the teammates playing with the new guy? What if it's a non-mentor team full of sub-10's against this guy?
The game is hard enough in most cases, and trying to get friends to play more of it past lvl 8 or 9 is like pulling teeth. Tossing an antagonist several hundred levels higher into a game, with late-game characters, stats, and fully upgraded rare weapons that have lethal abilities... It's throwing newbies against the wall like waterballoons full of blood. I can easily see people going "THIS is what the game is like? To hell with it."
That leads me to the other main problem I have, is the level/MMR spread of antag/raider pairings. Most antags I've seen vastly outlevel basically anyone else I've ever seen playing- most, that is. This means the same problems as listed above befall the other people playing- the game god decides to pair you with someone that's got free selection in an arsenal of characters, skills, and weapons, vs. you at level 50, whom doesn't even have half what the game could offer because of the gold and blueprint grind. The best games I've had with antagonists is when they're largely even playing field. That accounts for 2 of the antag games I've had. Every one of the others went one of three ways:
1) The antag was lowbie and had bad enough stats they were like fighting a mook, sometimes easier because of the MMR difficulty stuff
2) The antag one shots entire groups of people with things like Loaht's cluster grenades, and annihilates the team before second mission phase (any mission).
3) We had a level 200+ on our team that had absolutely devastating firepower which wiped out the antag instantly every time.
There was one outlier with a lvl 300+ Harec. Guys aim was *insane.*
Still, the gear grind/level advantage is absolutely a real thing, and it's the main reason the antagonist system is an eyeroll mechanic at this point.
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You are one and only "Just" some guy.
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I would compromise on not letting Antags on newer players but the rest of you are free game. I'm coming for you all. Know that when I ruin your games and blow your BP rolls, and one time rewards I'm in tears laughing. I actually see a few of my victims on these "Optional Antag Games" threads.
Evil laugher intensifies
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I would compromise on not letting Antags on newer players but the rest of you are free game. I'm coming for you all. Know that when I ruin your games and blow your BP rolls, and one time rewards I'm in tears laughing. I actually see a few of my victims on these "Optional Antag Games" threads.
Evil laugher intensifies
I hope you never get them on the same team in a raider mission. some of us remember the names of the antag that "drank tears".
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I would compromise on not letting Antags on newer players but the rest of you are free game. I'm coming for you all. Know that when I ruin your games and blow your BP rolls, and one time rewards I'm in tears laughing. I actually see a few of my victims on these "Optional Antag Games" threads.
Evil laugher intensifies
I hope you never get them on the same team in a raider mission. some of us remember the names of the antag that "drank tears".
+1
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I would compromise on not letting Antags on newer players but the rest of you are free game. I'm coming for you all. Know that when I ruin your games and blow your BP rolls, and one time rewards I'm in tears laughing. I actually see a few of my victims on these "Optional Antag Games" threads.
Evil laugher intensifies
Personally, I LOVE a good challenge from an antagonist. Now, before anyone gets carried away, I used to be challenged from the antagonists that populated the game when it was Raiders of the Broken Planet. The 'Spacelords' antags have been unbelievably mediocre. So Flowone, I hope to see you on the battlefield. I have all the blueprints and cards, I don't care about the "rewards", I like making antagonists quit the game, thats what keeps me coming back.
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I would compromise on not letting Antags on newer players but the rest of you are free game. I'm coming for you all. Know that when I ruin your games and blow your BP rolls, and one time rewards I'm in tears laughing. I actually see a few of my victims on these "Optional Antag Games" threads.
Evil laugher intensifies
Ironically I’m betting a good chunk of ppl in this thread not only have all bp’s but also have dupes of said bp’s and enough gold to reforge all weapons if they wanted and still have plenty left, so good luck with that…
Personally, I LOVE a good challenge from an antagonist. Now, before anyone gets carried away, I used to be challenged from the antagonists that populated the game when it was Raiders of the Broken Planet. The 'Spacelords' antags have been unbelievably mediocre. So Flowone, I hope to see you on the battlefield. I have all the blueprints and cards, I don't care about the "rewards", I like making antagonists quit the game, thats what keeps me coming back.
You do you ofc, but giving them a fight is exactly what they want, best scenario is imo if you manage to get the team to surrender as soon as possible, make them waste all that time they spent in queue, with basically no gameplay to show for it.
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Personally, I LOVE a good challenge from an antagonist. Now, before anyone gets carried away, I used to be challenged from the antagonists that populated the game when it was Raiders of the Broken Planet. The 'Spacelords' antags have been unbelievably mediocre. So Flowone, I hope to see you on the battlefield. I have all the blueprints and cards, I don't care about the "rewards", I like making antagonists quit the game, thats what keeps me coming back.
You do you ofc, but giving them a fight is exactly what they want, best scenario is imo if you manage to get the team to surrender as soon as possible, make them waste all that time they spent in queue, with basically no gameplay to show for it.
SMH...
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Agreed. Add that option to block freaks