Mercurysteam's Hangout
BARRACKS => Gameplay Feedback => Topic started by: Level9Drow on August 03, 2018, 06:33:37 AM
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Me and my friend who is in his low double digits played tonight. And every single game there was an antag. At first I just grin and bared it. We won one we lost one. Then they kept coming. We played several games, many with Lovette and TommyRawhead, who are both great players, and some other randoms. Kept losing, over and over. I told myself, "I'm supposed to like this I guess. I should just hold on, maybe there will be a game we can play in peace." Nope, one after another, the night got worst and worse. My friend finally didn't want to play anymore. I wasn't having any more fun after the 4rth invasion against my will. And each game it got worse and worse.
Can we have a fucking cool down on this shit please? This isn't any fun. I played by your goddamn rules and didn't bitch about it and it was NOT fun. I hope when Augest comes around they give players a choice because this is killing the game for me. This is no fun. Games are supposed to be fun. Getting invaded over and over is NO fucking fun.
PLEASE give your players options. Options always enrich the game and make it more varied. I don't like getting nothing for 2 hours of game play.
As for others commenting, this message isn't for your eyes, it's for the devs, hence "feedback". If you are opposed to my viewpoint I'm not interested in anything you have to say, you are, by definition, the enemy and there can be no consolation or conversation between us. You're just making a contrary statement in vain.
EDIT: I just want to offset my cynicism a bit. That Doldren skin is frakin' AWESOME. The new gun has some amazing mind game potential. Looking forward to getting my face stomped on by Doldren and stomping on other's faces with him. Hihasuke shows it off here with BrentWoody:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZAAGfzGRrQ
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*insert generic contrarian statement here*
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I just started playing about a week ago and so far I'm loving the game! I tend to play at strange hours so the matchmaking is extremely hit and miss for me. That said I will have days where its Antagonist constantly and then days where I get none at all.
I know that the Antagonist system with no option to play coop without it is keeping all of my friends away :( Other games with 4v1 mechanics put a bad taste in their mouths. So, I'm toughing it out alone trying to learn and taking my beatings when they happen lol
The worst for me is when people disconnect and not only are you at a disadvantage numbers wise, the AI isn't scaled down in difficulty to compensate..you just get wrecked. Even IF you tough it out and do your best you're likely to get little to no reward for doing so.
I want to try Antagonist some day but atm I don't wanna contribute to all the imbalance going on x.x
I too hope come August these systems can be ironed out. I'm enjoying this game so far despite my frustrations :)
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Always respect peaceful antagonist :)
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It seems only draco and woody like that shitting fking antagonist mode 😂. Useless, cause for players like them, newbies who can't finish a mission are simple noobs (and noobs will continue to be after many hours of playing if they can't finish a mission...) who can't talk (they lack in experience so they can't talk!), and since they like to play, practically, in antag (cause they did everything is possible do by raiders side), they can't go vs this mode. Starting from the idea in which "1 satisfaction 4 frustration" could only end up in a general discontent and players like draco and woody, who are among the few who do not follow the current, have to do with it, it's clear how this project is flawed at the base, where, exactly ALL the games with a similar to the 4v1 system have failed; so, if someone disagrees, he's wrong. It's simple; besides the fact that there is the frustration component, this is also more widespread than satisfaction (1 wins, 4 lose).
there would never have been talk of nerf on alicia if there had not existed that filthy antag mode... in august, this won't change, so i don't expect a significant improvement of the pleasure this game can give (and if the antag mode is going to be optional, this mode will die in a very short time). In any case it will be a game made by a few and, therefore, destined for a few.
*don't insert generic contrarian statement here*
*insert a generic approval statement here*
**no user has been mistreated, any reference to offenses or threats is purely subjective.**
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C'mon, tooeasy, no one is asking for PvP to be removed. And no one is blaming antagonists players. I think more options would be the healthy thing. I've gotten to the point where I'm willing to take my lumps as long as I can have my cake, meaning I will stand a few antag invasions for the health of the game as long as I can get some games without them. What I was saying is that I think it shouldn't be possible to get a bunch in a row, they should give you a break at some point.
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Always respect peaceful antagonist :)
Yes lol If I see them I won't hit them unless I need some aleph (that is if they even spawn)
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Make lighthearted joke post.
Still get randomly insulted with a strawman argument.
(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/401234699269177344/474990315955027988/saitama.png?width=739&height=411)
C'mon, tooeasy, no one is asking for PvP to be removed. And no one is blaming antagonists players. I think more options would be the healthy thing. I've gotten to the point where I'm willing to take my lumps as long as I can have my cake, meaning I will stand a few antag invasions for the health of the game as long as I can get some games without them. What I was saying is that I think it shouldn't be possible to get a bunch in a row, they should give you a break at some point.
Seems pretty fair. Even Dark Souls, my go-to comparison of antagonistic invaders, had some kind of cool down period. And they had an item that you could use to erase that timer if you wanted to get invaded quicker rather than waiting.
Just... the queues really suck for antags, still, so I hope whatever happens, fixes that but also agree that you shouldn't have to deal with one every single game.
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Yeah level, you want the option to play with/without antag. I could say, it's your main request during this update. But why are you continuing to purpose the same change, if you know this change won't come (any change won't come) first the spacelords reborn? You have only to wait, you sent the message, and it's arrived (devs read what we write). About the PVP part; i told about the 4v1 part not PVP in general, warframe also had to add a PVP component, even if devs was clear to don't want to add it. If there will be an "Arena" mode, it surely will be enjoyed by a lot of players, but the Antagonist mode isn't enjoyed by most of the players, you can see that when antagonist do nothing or don't spawn (one time, in the second mission of hades campaign, the antag helped us transporting the key...) or when the bonus exp bar is always nearer the R than the A (always during my hours of playing except when shy came out). So don't tell "no one" cause many don't like this mechanic. I purposed in a post a change that can avoid the frustration; make disturbing the raiders the only one objective antagonist has to have, so the antagonist has rewarded for time, raiders deaths, enemy mmr, for a score which goes from 0 to 8, and when raiders fail the mission the score given is between 8 and 10, considering % of mission advancement and enemy mmr. So, it continues to be natural for raiders win the game (with higher difficulty offered by the antag) and make the antag victory rare and hard (cause the antag role is to disturb, not to win). In this way the frustration is minimal in both sides, but the mechanics of the antag have to change in this vision... So what happens? Veterans don't want this change cause they want the game more competitive, newbies feel the frustration (in both side) and so run away, so nothing change. I think only that until there will be 4 losers (1 team, we aren't talking about ffa) and 1 winner, there will be always something unacceptable; yesterday was r'n'r bug, today is alicia mobility and how r'n'r works, tomorrow what will the problem be? How aneska dies in 1 minute with schneider? I don't know, but i know there will be something cause there's too much frustration in the air, and this frustration isn't so different by the frustration felt when r'n'r was bugged. So it's not r'n'r, it's not alicia, it's something in the game which makes many players feel defeated and only a few winners. 4v1 can exist, but not in this way.
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Draco you are going to break something with this story, you aren't the only one allowed to use sarcasm, i wrote it clearly, no insults, no offences, if you feel these it's your problem. Don't like sarcasm? don't use it, stop.
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I have a perfect solution. They should just make a 3 game minimum before you can be invaded again, you get placed with other people with the same cooldown as you, unless your in a pre made group then, your antagonist cooldown is the group leader's. To combat exploitation, if you try to rotate the group leader role to never get an antagonist then it'll just take into account your current antagonist cooldown you've passively generated while in a group. This will allow more serious player to prepare for an antagonist (no more oh alicia hate), while casuals probably wont keep track but still will get an antagonist here and there.
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I have a perfect solution. They should just make a 3 game minimum before you can be invaded again, you get placed with other people with the same cooldown as you, unless your in a pre made group then, your antagonist cooldown is the group leader's. To combat exploitation, if you try to rotate the group leader role to never get an antagonist then it'll just take into account your current antagonist cooldown you've passively generated while in a group. This will allow more serious player to prepare for an antagonist (no more oh alicia hate), while casuals probably wont keep track but still will get an antagonist here and there.
I don't know if it's just me, but when I lose to a team (as raider or antag) I kinda like getting rematches with them the next game. I do think there needs to be a way to ensure that you don't get 5 antag games in a row, but also let us turn such a feature off if desired, with a requirement of 3/4ths of the team needing to opt for it (same requirement for surrender).
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Totally agree
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I just don't want antagonist to be totally fazed out, I feel like people just don't understand that antagonists are one of the only reasons why this game isn't totally repetitive. Like killing floor 2 ( great game).
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Yea, the "opt in" function we've brought up before. It seems to be the best. Also, I was thinking about this. Let's say I felt randy and wanted to opt in one day and spice up the game with antag invasions. And after 4 or 5 games of getting my ass kicked I said, "Aw, that was a bad Idea. I don't want to do that anymore" I wouldn't fell bad because I could opt back out. Even if I lost a lot I wouldn't feel bad because I know I could change this at any time. Just HAVING the option not to PvP makes it so you feel less bad about PvP. In a strange way I think this would allow PvEers PvP more, because they know they aren't stuck at any point and so can afford to risk playing PvP more.
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*sigh* tooeasy, I started to read your post up there, and I was begining to form a reply while reading and then I realized how long it was. May I give you some constructive criticism? Make your posts shorter and more succinct. This is coming from a person who ALSO has large post. But, Break it up into paragraphs that stress different points and segways. People can read larger post (well most people) if they are in bite sized pieces, and it flows better, like commercial breaks to a long show.
I'm at work, man. I can't read that novel.
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This is an interesting topic for me because 2 months ago my response would have been very different. At this point I do NOT think there are too many antags, and I believe that while antags can turn away new players, the broken MMR system is more responsible for alot of the rage quitting.
Before "Spacelords" I was very much a 'Story-driven single player' gamer. I never got involved in mmo's or moba's and I avoided most things with pvp or any kind of invasion system. I cant explain why, but I didnt ever want to test myself against people who preferred that kind of gameplay and I believed I would surely lose if I ever was forced by a game to participate in that kind of mode.
Over time though on "Spacelords" that started to change. The more I faced antagonists the more I began to enjoy it, the more I raised the level of my own game. Before I knew it, my teams were winning the battles alot more than we were losing them. Even though the rewards are diminished in matches with antagonists, for me, the sense of satisfaction trumps all the other details.
I had about 5 or 6 matches in a row without an antagonist the other night, I knew exactly what I was getting. I knew my mmr was 60 and that my team was similarly leveled so I knew where the adds would be and I knew they would have 400 hp. I was actually WANTING an antagonist, and like Draco said, if I lost, I wanted them again because I believed things would be different the next time around.
Keep in mind, nearly all of these antagonists will turn around two matches later and be on your squad and prove to be great, supportive teammates. I am better at this game because of the antagonists, and while I remain a 'peaceful antagonist' to earn antagonist affinity, I relish the opportunity to not just compete with the great ones who have helped me raise my game, but to send them with their head down back to Uras for a lecture about their failure.
Fix the MMR to provide a better balance when one side is much higher or lower than the other, but keep the antagonists coming.
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You are right about the MMR being the largest cause of frustration. However today I had seven or eight matches in a row against the same guy. He was lowering MMR so wasn't trying to win, but still eight back to back games is a bit much.
If there was a large difference in MMR and the antagonist wasn't lowering MMR this would of been seven or so losses in a row for one side!
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jabberwocki, I completely commend your experience and wouldn't say anything to take that away for you. And because there are players playing for different reasons, this is why it should be optional. Give the choice to the players. Those who want to PvP choose it, those who don't avoid it and those who dance on the fence and are curious to test themselves from time to time, but not all the time can do so when they want to and stop when they've had enough.
I play the game for progression. I don't mind a challenge, but anything that slows or stops my progressions is, TO ME, a waste of time and useless. I'm grinding gold and faction, and when I get an antag who makes it so I only get 500 gold for 30 minutes I take it deeply personal and get very angry and resentful. I feel to accommodate everyone the best option would be to GIVE the option.
Players who choose to opt into PvP would receive increased rewards on top of what the normal rating system gives them. This incentivizes PvP. Those who like a slower and steady pace with less stress and more CONTROL of their time and progression would opt out of PvP. I don't mind grinding. I find I still learn new things against AI all the time and haven't even tried out all the characters. Wouldn't DARE try a character I've never played before with an antag. "Play offline." you say. Sorry, no rewards. Waste of time. Counterproductive towards progression. So I'm forced to play only a few optimal characters with maxed forged weapons for fear of being invaded. It's a shame I can't try new characters, as it could potentially hinder progression if an antag came in.
Warframe did it, and are very successful. I don't think it is a bad idea to follow their lead.
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Level9Drow, your reasons for progression and how an antag is detrimental to that are basically the same reasons my friends refuse to try this game with me. They take it a step further though by generally seeing PvP as a hindrance or a series of setbacks as opposed to another layer of depth.
One friend specifically said that the game looked cool but as soon as he saw 4v1 he said nope and backed out of the store page.
I'm torn because I like the antag system but I too feel frustrated when you spend a lot of time playing a match to walk away with next to nothing because I too am trying to get better stuff/more characters.
I like your idea of opting in for PvP to get even greater rewards and I'd like to add that, even if the rewards are far more limited than a pure PvE or PvP setup via matchmaking, you should still have the option to solo and still gain something more than one time. Simply having more options and styles of play will help more people gravitate to the game.
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Well, if the population increases with the F2P model then we can expect a lot of different game modes to be available. You can split up a community of 10000 a lot easier than splitting one up of 40.
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Yea, Brent, that's what I'm hoping. Otherwise the community will be to small.
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I played a game tonight because I wanted a blueprint. The antagonist beat us, but not by much. It made my blueprint chance 25%. I didn’t get it. You know what I said to myself...that was a fun match, sooo close.
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There's actually not a lot of antags anymore. As soon as they made it no longer necessary for weapons it turns out most people prefer to play as raider. Go figure.
As far as your comment goes, wait until you see how rare and nearly impossible it is to get a BP.
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I won’t be able to play the game enough to worry about anything other than trying to have fun. If I get a bp I get a bp.
Oh, and I hated the loot cave ;)
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Yeah I've barely seen any antags lately, and almost all of them have been friendly. Only one that stands out as trying to fight, also had a massively lower MMR than my team so we eventually surrendered on short fused because we wouldn't even pass the rock in the middle without getting 1 shot by the tanks, or torn apart by wardogs with 500 health.
I would play antag more but my MMR has been so high that it takes too long to get into a game. I don't care about what rewards it gives or what affinity is needed, or that it's not longer forced for weapons, my options to play are:
1. wait up to an HOUR for a match (longest i've waited before giving up) that lasts 10-20 minutes
2. Join a team of other friends in a party and have 0 wait time between matches and just plat constantly.
Removing the requirement doesn't stop me from antagging. The inability to play is what prohibits me.
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This game can't split up PvP and PvE until they actually get a player base even then it will go back to seeming incredibly small.
I like playing as Antag, if the enemy teams lol does equal mine when added up I'll either not spawn in or dick around as an Aleph generator for them.
But if your lvl is 20+ I'm playing the game as was intended. This game was ADVERTISED as an asymmetrical 4v1, the fact that you can get a match WITHOUT an antagonist is lucky/good enough as is.
I get that some people don't want to deal with PvP but that's like grabbing dead by daylight and being angry that their is a killer in your game.
Antagonists make the game way more interesting rather than rinse and repeat of the same missions. It at least throws a little thinking into the mix when not dealing with a.i
All of that said however I do agree with people's MMR complaints and I still stand by the fact that if you are in a "mentor" match an Antag shouldn't be able to join. I'm a competent player and can deal with an Antag either through avoidance or clever attacking, lvl 1's and 3's can't though and THAT gets frustrating because I want to help but I don't have the time to help with the mission and Antag, speaking of, jfc MS allow training BEFORE finishing a mission 5 times for new players like I don't know what's going on over there but you guys do know the concept of training is to get a handle of the level BEFORE doing it yea?
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Are you kidding me? with how precious and rare blueprints are now antagonists are hated even more now than ever. I have only one chance in a 48 hour or more period to get a blueprint and this son of a bitch ruins that for me? Before it was just something that pissed you off for a while, now you get FUCKED for multiple days. The antagonist can literally take away the reason to even jump online and play. When your BP chance is ruined I notice many players just leave and don't log back in until they get another BP mission, which could be multiple days. I lot of people I have grouped with and were advocates of the antag system and didn't share my criticism of it, people who were previously optimistic and gentle natures are now pissed with the BP system and hate antagonists. I don't feel a sense of victory either because now they feel the way I do, but a sadness because as easy as I am to piss off, the system was able to piss these otherwise friendly and competitive people off now. It's sad seeing them change in this way because of how hard gated the BP are now.
I peaceful antag, and when I saw how pitifully low the rewards for losing as an antag I ALMOST thought I may have to play as antag, as much as I would be ruining the other person's day. But when I saw how the BP system worked I though to myself I could NEVER be that much of a fucking ass hole as to ruin the BP for someone else, it happened to me and it was horrible and rage inducing. So despite the reduced rewards I still peaceful antag to lower MMR and get affinity, because I'm not that much of a dick.
Until they fix this horrid blueprint situations I feel forced PvP is even more of an egregious mistake. Then I will just see forced PvP as a necessary evil, right now it's just plain evil.
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I feel it's even worse when you are a better player. The moment an antagonist pops up you know it's a loss as your MMR score is likely to be at least 10% higher, and the god bots roll out. Lucky if you even get out of the spawn area on some levels.
If you needs to win multiple times and there are a lot of antagonists when you play bad luck. Game for the blueprint and an antagonist pray the 15% drop chance after the kicking you receive is enough.
A PvP system that works more like a dice roll does not a fun game make. Wins should never be determined by the % at the top right of the screen.
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Are you kidding me? with how precious and rare blueprints are now antagonists are hated even more now than ever. I have only one chance in a 48 hour or more period to get a blueprint and this son of a bitch ruins that for me? Before it was just something that pissed you off for a while, now you get FUCKED for multiple days. The antagonist can literally take away the reason to even jump online and play. When your BP chance is ruined I notice many players just leave and don't log back in until they get another BP mission, which could be multiple days. I lot of people I have grouped with and were advocates of the antag system and didn't share my criticism of it, people who were previously optimistic and gentle natures are now pissed with the BP system and hate antagonists. I don't feel a sense of victory either because now they feel the way I do, but a sadness because as easy as I am to piss off, the system was able to piss these otherwise friendly and competitive people off now. It's sad seeing them change in this way because of how hard gated the BP are now.
I peaceful antag, and when I saw how pitifully low the rewards for losing as an antag I ALMOST thought I may have to play as antag, as much as I would be ruining the other person's day. But when I saw how the BP system worked I though to myself I could NEVER be that much of a fucking ass hole as to ruin the BP for someone else, it happened to me and it was horrible and rage inducing. So despite the reduced rewards I still peaceful antag to lower MMR and get affinity, because I'm not that much of a dick.
Until they fix this horrid blueprint situations I feel forced PvP is even more of an egregious mistake. Then I will just see forced PvP as a necessary evil, right now it's just plain evil.
Nah not kidding you,I already alter the way the game was meant to be played by just not spawning or by acting as an Aleph farm last I get blasted in msgs afterward for playing the game.
Don't hate the antagonist, hate the devs and their rewards/MMR system. As someone said if you don't like how things are currently toucan easily play something else until it is if it ever is.
Because it really seems your issue is with how the rewards and MMR get skewed/more difficult when an Antag invades which is a legitimate complaint but you overall just really seem to not want to deal with PVP at all and that's fine, nothing wrong with that but the game was always advertised as the 4v1 with the possibility of an invasion. I knew that before downloading the game and I accept it, loss or not.
As Draco said the Xbox issue is going to be at the forefront as it should be. What I think would help alleviate some of this constant thread salt would be if a member of MS actually chimed in. This is the only official forum I have been on where I haven't seen a CM or dev response. As someone who has done PR and CM the lack of communication is surprising and a bit disappointing.
So focus on the issues at hand,it's not the Antag it's the devs.
I almost want to stop being this "nice antag" because it seems to be expected now which is just dumb IMO.
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meanwhile people complaining about rare weapons...how did i get all these blueprints?
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LOL, whatever. If an antag fucks my BP I remember their name, I write it down. And the rest is history.
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LOL, whatever. If an antag fucks my BP I remember their name, I write it down. And the rest is history.
~harec antag best antag.~
getting some murderous vibes here.
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Nothing outside of game-play. But definitely not what you think. Let's just say after they ruin my success I ruin theirs, but my methods are a little less conventional and take a sacrifice from myself, but feels SOOO good. Before I would be reluctant to do so, but now since they added the new BP system and if the antag ruined my BP chance within a 48 or more hour period, then I feel no guilt whatsoever.
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LOL, whatever. If an antag fucks my BP I remember their name, I write it down. And the rest is history.
I...I don't even know how to respond to that. More cringe than Lycus' pussy eating line lol
Enjoy your scraps of paper I guess lol at least if you don't get your BP you at least have those?
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We all know I love to be antag, but I've changed my mind now on what I'm gonna go hard on. If I see a game is clearly a mentor match, with 2-3 players under level 10, I am gonna start friendly antagging. It feels mean to wreck that team with my skill, knowing I can go toe to toe with the best players. I know I'll cause ragequits at a time that would be bad.
And yet, even when I did that, the level 1's still disconnected :( There's just no winning!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UmU4mPvKco
also Drow y u no spawn on our games any more? Better question-- why are you antagging now? To lower MMR? Or for affinity?
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You're not too bright. I don't think you understood what I was saying. But I edited the statement for clarification.
as far as "cringe"...ugh, as an adult you realize people worried about "cringe" are often not the most mature people. It's a teenage mindset based on a social hierarchical structure of acceptance. When you are an adul you realize other people general acceptance is not so precious, because other people are not as great as you once thought. I don't mean to be a bit hypocritical but when people say something is "cringe" that in itself is eye rolling and "cringe" because their so vapid and don't realize it. The world is bigger than your "cool" factor.
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We all know I love to be antag, but I've changed my mind now on what I'm gonna go hard on. If I see a game is clearly a mentor match, with 2-3 players under level 10, I am gonna start friendly antagging. It feels mean to wreck that team with my skill, knowing I can go toe to toe with the best players. I know I'll cause ragequits at a time that would be bad.
As an Antag I do fully agree with this. As I said earlier if their levels don't equal mine I won't spawn in or will be an Aleph factory.
I also don't think raiders should lose the chance at the BP it they lose and don't get it on the roll Antag in the match or not.
But if someone is 20+ they know the game and I will play it as well. They need to learn how to deal with one at some point. It sucks that with the way the current system is it sucks for rewards but not playing sucks even more.
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You're not too bright. I don't think you understood what I was saying. But I edited the statement for clarification.
as far as "cringe"...ugh, as an adult you realize people worried about "cringe" are often not the most mature people. It's a teenage mindset based on a social hierarchical structure of acceptance. When you are an adul you realize other people general acceptance is not so precious, because other people are not as great as you once thought. I don't mean to be a bit hypocritical but when people say something is "cringe" that in itself is eye rolling and "cringe" because their so vapid and don't realize it. The world is bigger than your "cool" factor.
Resorting to insults tisk tisk.
Also not sure what post your talking about editing, I didn't quote or respond to that one and you didn't quote me so unsure if you're refeeig to two different responses or just the one where I said you write down the names and keep a list is cringey.
You say that word is a high school type thing. What grown ass adult writes down people's names in a game because they lost to them. That's childish.
If I get an Antag I WANT them to try and ruin my shit, it makes the game more interesting rather than playing the same a.i swarm pattern over and over.
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We all know I love to be antag, but I've changed my mind now on what I'm gonna go hard on. If I see a game is clearly a mentor match, with 2-3 players under level 10, I am gonna start friendly antagging. It feels mean to wreck that team with my skill, knowing I can go toe to toe with the best players. I know I'll cause ragequits at a time that would be bad.
And yet, even when I did that, the level 1's still disconnected :( There's just no winning!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UmU4mPvKco
also Drow y u no spawn on our games any more? Better question-- why are you antagging now? To lower MMR? Or for affinity?
I had to lower my MMR, it was over 50%, and there is probably not a huge risk of the AI being strong against you guys. I didn't think you guys needed help. But if I see struggling I will spawn and help. I was also making tea that time I was antag with you guys, it was cool to see you all. Sad I'm not an PS4, I'm PC. :(
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You're not too bright. I don't think you understood what I was saying. But I edited the statement for clarification.
as far as "cringe"...ugh, as an adult you realize people worried about "cringe" are often not the most mature people. It's a teenage mindset based on a social hierarchical structure of acceptance. When you are an adul you realize other people general acceptance is not so precious, because other people are not as great as you once thought. I don't mean to be a bit hypocritical but when people say something is "cringe" that in itself is eye rolling and "cringe" because their so vapid and don't realize it. The world is bigger than your "cool" factor.
Resorting to insults tisk tisk.
Also not sure what post your talking about editing, I didn't quote or respond to that one and you didn't quote me so unsure if you're refeeig to two different responses or just the one where I said you write down the names and keep a list is cringey.
You say that word is a high school type thing. What grown ass adult writes down people's names in a game because they lost to them. That's childish.
If I get an Antag I WANT them to try and ruin my shit, it makes the game more interesting rather than playing the same a.i swarm pattern over and over.
Ah so you pick and choose when you feel you should be mature or not, I see. Well can't say that means I should take you seriously. Hope I don't see you as antag. If I do and you "ruin my shit" it will be worse if I ever see you on the same team. ;)
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We've already played together twice on Media Res during the higher doldren BP drop chance. I remember very clearly as I knew you as the R&R Alicia thread complaints.
I also never claimed to be mature lol I vary just like you. I mean I never went out of my way to say it ruin two teammates matches just because a previous Antag ended up on your team, that seems immature to me.
But you do you Drow, if you are an Antag in my match play the way the game is supposed to. If we are on a team again and you go out of your way to ruin the match because of a previous Antag match that says way more about you and is a shame for the other players on the team.
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We've already played together twice on Media Res during the higher doldren BP drop chance. I remember very clearly as I knew you as the R&R Alicia thread complaints.
I also never claimed to be mature lol I vary just like you. I mean I never went out of my way to say it ruin two teammates matches just because a previous Antag ended up on your team, that seems immature to me.
But you do you Drow, if you are an Antag in my match play the way the game is supposed to. If we are on a team again and you go out of your way to ruin the match because of a previous Antag match that says way more about you and is a shame for the other players on the team.
Sometimes you godda' break a couple eggs to make an omelet, but we're even now. Can't say we will see each other again, I certainly hope not. But with the lower level of antags these days and large influx of players I doubt we will. And don;t pretend to be virtuous after your previous statements, it's clearly disingenuous and just divisive, so I won't take it to heart.
But let's stop this Blizzard forum bullshit now can't we? I'd rather forget about you and move on, I've already settles the matter. Enjoy your R&R nerf.
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Nah I think we're both done. We've each said our peace at least on that front we're both mature lol
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Conflict always seems to be a guaranteed byproduct of human interaction, doesn't it? Who ever wants to be the first one to yield an inch? It's always a sacrifice to do so.
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Only if there is no pineapple.....or I swear I will go full Antag.
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Hi all.
I wanted to give a second chance to this game with its re-launch.
I played a few matches that were fine, with no antag, and then one match: we were lvl 8, 1, 4 and 9 with a antag lvl 17: we were just being shot at spawn point.
Very fun game indeed ...
Again, the only solution I see is just a way to turn off antag mode and be 4 players PVE for players who want it.
Some said that Warframe added a PvP but if you don't want to play it, you don't have too. It's a separate game mode I may play some time, but not if I don't want to.
Here, I'm forced to play without knowing if I will play the way I want or not.
I will still launch it from time to time but will quit every time I get an antag and change to another game since I can't rematch for quitting but I don't think I will do that for long.
A shame, truly as the world and gameplay are really nice and after the first games I really wanted to progress in it...
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There is a lot less these days. But I think you might have more because you are lower level? I think the antag numbers thin out the higher level you are. I feel the same way you do. I honestly think they have something in the works, but just haven't implemented it yet. Just keep popping in, I'm sure it will change.
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There’s less indeed and I’ve finally been having more consistent fun with raiders again because of it, but there’s still the annoying tolchok Konstantin and the same old bullshit with the game giving out antags with 20%+ less mmr which is just a free win for them, at least I stopped trying on pvp matches long ago and prefer a quick loss… however the consecutive win requirement and the fact blueprint rolls are based on match score make antags more annoying than ever and now its way more than just the one match that’s potentially being wasted by them.
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totally agree, with all of what you've said, except the tolchock. I haven't had an antag tolchock yet. But I play Javelin Ginabra anyways, so I'm not so worried.
Remember they're going to come out with Arena, that will attract a lot of PvPers. BUT, I feel it will only attract the sportsman PvPers, not the troll PvPers. Troll PvPers don't want to fight other PvPers, they want to prey on PvEers mostly. Remember the max level characters in World of Warcraft grave camping low levels in the Barrens? That's the kind that will stay in normal missions.
What we did to get all of our BP was play on a week day night, less antagonists on, and we also drive our MMR down to preferable mid 40% to ensure greater success before doing the missions we need to get the BP. Especially if the BP requires more than one win to get it and if we're using a player or more with TH maxed on their weapon. TH weapons are gimped weapons for combat and higher MMRs are a liability to success. We got all 4 party members BP doing this. BUT, it's sooooo sllllowww to do things this way, and takes so much damn preparations.
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Strikes me that SWTOR has the best system to deal with this. If you put someone on an ignore list, the game will not match you up with them for flashpoints or operations (Don't know if it does it for straight-up PVP but I think it does.)
This strikes me as the best way to deal with both the antag issue and the troll player. Somebody wrecks your option to get Blueprints? Put them on the list and you won't be matched with them. Troll throws the match? Put them on the list and you won't be matched with them.
This way, people can eliminate the players that bother them. As those people (and hypersensitive people who overutilize the list) get squeezed out of online play due to having a diminishing base of players who will join a match with them, they will leave the game behind. This will resolve the vast majority of issues everyone has with the playerbase.
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Strikes me that SWTOR has the best system to deal with this. If you put someone on an ignore list, the game will not match you up with them for flashpoints or operations (Don't know if it does it for straight-up PVP but I think it does.)
This strikes me as the best way to deal with both the antag issue and the troll player. Somebody wrecks your option to get Blueprints? Put them on the list and you won't be matched with them. Troll throws the match? Put them on the list and you won't be matched with them.
This way, people can eliminate the players that bother them. As those people (and hypersensitive people who overutilize the list) get squeezed out of online play due to having a diminishing base of players who will join a match with them, they will leave the game behind. This will resolve the vast majority of issues everyone has with the playerbase.
The problem with that is, in my experience, most of the time, I don't want to blame antagonists: they're just playing their role.
I don't want to have to "ban" every antagonist player just so I can play PvE.
I (we ?) just want an option to be only 4 players PvE, no antogonist, when I (we ?) don't want to.
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Strikes me that SWTOR has the best system to deal with this. If you put someone on an ignore list, the game will not match you up with them for flashpoints or operations (Don't know if it does it for straight-up PVP but I think it does.)
This strikes me as the best way to deal with both the antag issue and the troll player. Somebody wrecks your option to get Blueprints? Put them on the list and you won't be matched with them. Troll throws the match? Put them on the list and you won't be matched with them.
This way, people can eliminate the players that bother them. As those people (and hypersensitive people who overutilize the list) get squeezed out of online play due to having a diminishing base of players who will join a match with them, they will leave the game behind. This will resolve the vast majority of issues everyone has with the playerbase.
The problem with that is, in my experience, most of the time, I don't want to blame antagonists: they're just playing their role.
I don't want to have to "ban" every antagonist player just so I can play PvE.
I (we ?) just want an option to be only 4 players PvE, no antogonist, when I (we ?) don't want to.
I don't have a problem with that. However, I feel that, given the track record of games that have split the base with PVP/PVE servers, it'd be far more efficient to just kill the antag system altogether
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I really like the antagonist part of the game, it really sets it apart, if I had to change it I would say antagonist should not out rank 3 quarters of your team meaning if three team members are below 25 then the antagonist should be also
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Again, some frustrating session!
We were in a mentor match: lvl 1, 8, 32 and 60 and ... got an antagonist lvl ... 71!
It was a Doldren and we never managed to get further than spawn point.
Yeah, and the lvl 1 quit in the first 5 minutes.
I'm sure this player must have fell in love with this game ... or maybe not ...
Very fun this way.
So, again, put an option to turn off antagonist ffs ...
I don't want to remove it entirely but just leave it for those who want that.
It will be better for every one as match with one will be with players who want it and are prepared so more interesting for every one.
And if antags can't find a match, it would just mean our point is right and that no one wants to go against one...
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Strikes me that SWTOR has the best system to deal with this. If you put someone on an ignore list, the game will not match you up with them for flashpoints or operations (Don't know if it does it for straight-up PVP but I think it does.)
This strikes me as the best way to deal with both the antag issue and the troll player. Somebody wrecks your option to get Blueprints? Put them on the list and you won't be matched with them. Troll throws the match? Put them on the list and you won't be matched with them.
This way, people can eliminate the players that bother them. As those people (and hypersensitive people who overutilize the list) get squeezed out of online play due to having a diminishing base of players who will join a match with them, they will leave the game behind. This will resolve the vast majority of issues everyone has with the playerbase.
The problem with that is, in my experience, most of the time, I don't want to blame antagonists: they're just playing their role.
I don't want to have to "ban" every antagonist player just so I can play PvE.
I (we ?) just want an option to be only 4 players PvE, no antogonist, when I (we ?) don't want to.
I don't have a problem with that. However, I feel that, given the track record of games that have split the base with PVP/PVE servers, it'd be far more efficient to just kill the antag system altogether
That would be really unfair to the players to really like the Antagonist system.
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So just make it optional. Like 99.9999999% of games that have PvP and PvE. The player gets to choose when they do one or the other, but either is never forced.
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I still don't get why players who like the antagonist answer saying it shouldn't be removed.
We don't want it removed!
We want it to be optional, so only for players who want to play as an antagonist or against one.
Simple.
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I mean as the system stands now it is broken.
You can as a new player start on Counsil apocalypse at level one and be invaded multiple times in a row by people way higher than you with better guns, especially when maxed out. That have higher passives which have been buffed up since Raiders. They only have four characters to choose from two of which struggle to hit the objectives on the mouse and the snake. Most likely they get paired with a higher levelled player in a mentor match which pushes the difficultly up.
This does not a good first impression make. Then when they finally get to play as an antagonist themselves it's really difficult and discouraging.
The antagonist can straight up block new players progress by stopping blueprint and level progression.
Then after that if you stick around you see half the wins and losses are dictated by the MMR system and whichever side is lowest as it's very rare than both sides are even.
Nearly every single one of these problems is removed by making it a separate mode.
As it stands currently the structure is turning away many potential customers. Which is a shame as underneath it all the game is really fun.
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The problem is that some players can taste the game without an antag, love its mechanics, ideas, gameplay... and then throw away every bit of love after a few matches with an antag and the constant menace that that experience that they loved can be ruined in a second... and you don't want that, you want people playing and pumping money into the game, so, make antag mode optional.
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Yeah that is a better summary than my long post above it.
I have seen it first hand with friends that like the game but instantly get turned away by the forced antagonist system. The games they went to play instead were either full PvE or you had the option to do both PvE and PvP.
I understand the antagonist system is this games unique selling point, but it turns many people away. More players gives a better chance of some of them being paying customers.
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I've had it with antags: mentor matches with lvl 275 antags just ruins your game altogether...
I've put a bit of money in this game so far because it had some very nice ideas, gameplay, design, lore, ...
But since MercurySteam doesn't seem to care much, I won't put more money until we get an option to turn off antags when we just want to chill or just want our rewards (which can be difficult enough with the crappy way this game has to introduce itself to new players.)
And an option to turn off mentor matches will be next (cause 20% XP is far too low if you end up with 3 beginners and doesn't worth loosing your blueprint or gold!)
Clear and simple.
Your move MercurySteam.
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I've had it with antags: mentor matches with lvl 275 antags just ruins your game altogether...
I've put a bit of money in this game so far because it had some very nice ideas, gameplay, design, lore, ...
But since MercurySteam doesn't seem to care much, I won't put more money until we get an option to turn off antags when we just want to chill or just want our rewards (which can be difficult enough with the crappy way this game has to introduce itself to new players.)
And an option to turn off mentor matches will be next (cause 20% XP is far too low if you end up with 3 beginners and doesn't worth loosing your blueprint or gold!)
Clear and simple.
Your move MercurySteam.
just in case, when you accept a match it lets you know its a mentor match, not trying to be a smartass but hope it helps.
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I've had it with antags: mentor matches with lvl 275 antags just ruins your game altogether...
I've put a bit of money in this game so far because it had some very nice ideas, gameplay, design, lore, ...
But since MercurySteam doesn't seem to care much, I won't put more money until we get an option to turn off antags when we just want to chill or just want our rewards (which can be difficult enough with the crappy way this game has to introduce itself to new players.)
And an option to turn off mentor matches will be next (cause 20% XP is far too low if you end up with 3 beginners and doesn't worth loosing your blueprint or gold!)
Clear and simple.
Your move MercurySteam.
just in case, when you accept a match it lets you know its a mentor match, not trying to be a smartass but hope it helps.
Yep, I second this. And same, no sarcasm. If you see a match that start with a mentor bonus, DECLINE MISSION. Pure and simple. I used to want to help new players and thought 20% was a nice incentive to do so...not anymore. I decline now all the time. Faction points are SO hard to come by and are thrown away for nothing gained 90% of the time, I don't need new players messing that up because they're clueless (killing the elites on short fused with head shots, not releasing aleph, etc...). Just wee the "mentor bonus" as a warning not to accept the match.
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nop, sorry.
All I can do is cancel, requeue for every mission ... and maybe have the same mentor mission again!
I've tried it several times but had to resign accepting it in the end most of the times.
So you're right, I know it's going to be a mentor one, but I can't avoid mentor missions if I want to play (yesterday evening with a friend: we only played mentor missions ... sometimes with antags 207 by the way!)
And again, the problem is not helping new players (since the game can't do it itself!) but having them when you try to get a high score for a blueprint or else.
Personally, I would turn off antags and mentor for daily rewards, then put mentor back on (and maybe antags, if I play with friends in an organized team)
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Hey all,
We have been following this topic, and we wanted to let you know that we are taking good note of your feedback. The 4 v 1 gameplay is in Spacelords core, but that doesn’t mean we won't refine and improve the experience based in what you, the players, tell us. As we have said before, making changes in a game take a lot of time and effort to pull through, but as you have seen with how the game has progressed in the last few months you can be assured we will keep listening to you.
See you on the Broken Planet!
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Hey all,
We have been following this topic, and we wanted to let you know that we are taking good note of your feedback. The 4 v 1 gameplay is in Spacelords core, but that doesn’t mean we won't refine and improve the experience based in what you, the players, tell us. As we have said before, making changes in a game take a lot of time and effort to pull through, but as you have seen with how the game has progressed in the last few months you can be assured we will keep listening to you.
See you on the Broken Planet!
Even though I don't agree with what a lot of players are saying, it's awesome to know that you guys are paying attention to what fans are saying. :)
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Yes thank you for the reply.
Replies like this stop the entire thread snowballing out of control which is always a good thing.
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Hey all,
We have been following this topic, and we wanted to let you know that we are taking good note of your feedback. The 4 v 1 gameplay is in Spacelords core, but that doesn’t mean we won't refine and improve the experience based in what you, the players, tell us. As we have said before, making changes in a game take a lot of time and effort to pull through, but as you have seen with how the game has progressed in the last few months you can be assured we will keep listening to you.
See you on the Broken Planet!
Thank you for your replay. Your game is truly epic, and as with all things that we love, in causes passion over issues. I want you to know that I love this game, even though it may seem like I am frustrated at times.
You guys are an amazing team!!!